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Is it possible?

setting up some automated daily/drip water changes on a tank like that makes far more sense, and is far and away the least labour intensive option.
Yeah if I ever have the privilege to own a tank of this volume a constant automated water change system would definitely be in place.

@dw1305 I looked a little more into his filtration technique and to be honest it started making my brain hurt.
He seems to speak very highly of somebody I'm sure you are familiar with and bases his ideas around said person, that person is Dr. James L. Barnard.

Maybe Erik has built himself a functioning anammox reactor.
 
His flow rate through the filter seems good considering he’s got a 1 micron filter as the final stage.
Must say, I’m a little dubious that zeolite and perhaps some perigee at the end will remove 100% of the organics in a single pass.
 
Hi all
He seems to speak very highly of somebody I'm sure you are familiar with and bases his ideas around said person, that person is Dr. James L. Barnard.
That is a well known, and very influential, name in the wastewater world.
Maybe Erik has built himself a functioning anammox reactor.
Possibly.

Cheers Darrel
 
I suppose, at a very technical and absolute level, nitrates are the only reason to perform water changes. I know that is a very over-simplified and flawed way of looking at it, but one of the key reasons is to reduce nitrate created by the nitrification process.

I guess it's possible that his plants and cleaning are dealing with the nitrates well, but the nitrates in that aquarium might be running higher, which the fish have adapted to, and it is indeed possible for fish to adapt to higher nitrates. I also know that some aquarists (Father Fish) also never did water changes for a long period of time - so it must be possible with nitrate-eating 'stuff'. (Father Fish also was not an advocate of regular water changes like Erik).

I just wonder what his exact water chemistry is?
 
I just wonder what his exact water chemistry is?
He claims.

Ph 6.5
Kh 3
Gh 6
Nh4/nh3 0
No2 0
No3 artificial dosing to 5mg/l
Po4 artificial dosing to 0.8mg/l
Conductivity 280 microsiemens/ in tds is that 179
Home made liquid ferts and sticks.
Bio co2 home made.
Temp 28°
 
Hi all,
I suppose, at a very technical and absolute level, nitrates are the only reason to perform water changes. I know that is a very over-simplified and flawed way of looking at it, but one of the key reasons is to reduce nitrate created by the nitrification process.
I honestly think it is a lot more complicated than that. There are the hormones <"and salts"> etc produced by the fish, which have to continually excrete water (and internal salts) for osmotic reasons and plants are <"just very leaky structures">.

I'm not an EI user, but Clive (@ceg4048 ) will tell you <"that the large water change in EI"> is as much about removing these compounds as it is about removing any nutrient build-up.
I guess it's possible that his plants ......... are dealing with the nitrates well
I also know that some aquarists (Father Fish) also never did water changes for a long period of time - so it must be possible with nitrate-eating 'stuff'. (Father Fish also was not an advocate of regular water changes like Erik).
Plants are much, much more effective at reducing levels of fixed nitrogen than a lot of <"aquarium based literature"> acknowledges and I think this allows heavily planted tanks to run for longer before disaster ensues. Combine this with the <"low toxicity of nitrate (NO3-)"> and you have a situation that isn't optimal, but is survivable.

Do I think these tanks would be better with water changes? I do.

cheers Darrel
 
I honestly think it is a lot more complicated than that. There are the hormones <"and salts"> etc produced by the fish, which have to continually excrete water (and internal salts) for osmotic reasons and plants are <"just very leaky structures">.
I thought about that as well. But fish hormones have a really, really short life so any that is excreted into the water wont survive very long - so I discarded that aspect. One thing plants do do well, is that they help reduce nitrates and he has plants in that water. From what I can read from Eriks water chemistry, it loos like a blackwater setup (?) and therefore the salts would be quite low which could mean that the bacteria does not thrive prolifically under those conditions - thus allowing Erik to keep it under control with great filtration?
 
Hi all,
From what I can read from Eriks water chemistry, it loos like a blackwater setup (?) and therefore the salts would be quite low which could mean that the bacteria does not thrive prolifically under those conditions
It is soft water, but not really blackwater. I would be interested whether the alkalinity is continually dropping (as nitrification consumes it) or whether he maintains it at 3 dKH. On <"Apistogramma forums"> what is, or isn't, blackwater is quite a hot topic - <"Absolute beginner to black water tanks">.

I think there is enough alkalinity to support a "normal" microbial flora. We have a thread - <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee"> It looks specifically at Aquarium filters, but I'm going to guess that those microbes are also in the substrate etc. <"https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/msphere.00143-19">.

Barthelme_msphere_bacterial.jpeg

FIG 1 Dendrogram of bacterial community dissimilarity across University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee RAS components. The dendrogram was created using average-linkage Bray-Curtis dissimilarity of bacterial communities between RAS components. Leaves are labeled by date and sample site within the RAS. Sample site references are as follows, in order of process flow: Tank, rearing tank; pH, pH buffering tank; Clar, clarifier sludge; ClarOut, clarifier effluent; Bfsand, biofilter sand substrate, BfOut, biofilter effluent; Degas, carbon dioxide degassing tower.
I won't clutter this thread with the other graphs, but they are in the linked paper. I'm going to guess, on the assumption that everyone is an honest broker, that we would be looking at something similar in the "no water change tank", in terms of microbial diversity and how it is distributed through the tank.
Ph 6.5
Kh 3
Gh 6
Nh4/nh3 0
No2 0
No3 artificial dosing to 5mg/l
Po4 artificial dosing to 0.8mg/l
Conductivity 280 microsiemens/ in tds is that 179
They are a bit strange, and I'm not sure I entirely believe them, but if we knew exactly what compounds he was adding to the water it would make them easier to interpret.

cheers Darrel
 
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Maybe Erik has built himself a functioning anammox reactor.

No3 artificial dosing to 5mg/l

That blows that out of the water then - as presumably the plants are consuming any nitrogen generated by the system (which is what you would expect anyway), if he has to add more manually.

it loos like a blackwater setup
but not really blackwater

Yep, very long way from Blackwater with those parameters.
 
Hi all,
How come Darrel?
I'm not convinced about these three values.
pH 6.5
Kh 3
Gh 6
The conductivity value is much more likely to be correct, but I'm not sure how that works with "no water changes".
Conductivity 280 microsiemens/ in tds is that 179 ppm
That is a very small amount of ions in solution and even if "useless" <"soluble ions"> (Na+, Cl- etc) were building up incredibly slowly (over the thirteen years) there is no obvious mechanism for diminishing them.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,

I'm not convinced about these three values.

The conductivity value is much more likely to be correct, but I'm not sure how that works with "no water changes".

That is a very small amount of ions in solution and even if "useless" <"soluble ions"> (Na+, Cl- etc) were building up incredibly slowly (over the thirteen years) there is no obvious mechanism for diminishing them.

cheers Darrel

Oh I see, yes the conductivity should be much higher shouldn't it, as it will gradually build up over time as you say.
 
So I have messages from Eric!

1) I make no claims, everything I show is real! Aquarium was started in 2010, water was never changed. I distance myself from father fish, walstad and others, as I develop my own system. The Erik Brion methods are based on professional wastewater treatment, in which all techniques suitable for aquaristic have been implemented
2) By far the most efficient mechanical filtering is using gravity. Without a strong current in the aquarium, all organic contamination will settle to the bottom. This is sucked away weekly, using a recirculation system where the purified water is immediately pumped back to the aquarium. Sponges, zeolite and purigen do the work here. It seems simple, but the hand of an experienced aquarist is a necessity here. We only want to remove excess organic waste. The rest serves as food for the plants. Proverbially, don't waste the waste literally applies here.
3) The same waste, in the form of very small particles, is also a necessity for our filter to function efficiently. The proponents of major water changes are shooting themselves in the foot here, because without nutrition a biological filter cannot function. The enormous planting provides sufficient oxygen for aerobic filtration, additionally supported by 4 oxidizers filled with hydrogen peroxide. Plants consume contamination, ammonium contains more and easily absorbable nitrogen than nitrate. Plants will therefore first consume the ammonium, relieving The same waste, in the form of very small particles, is also a necessity for our filter to function efficiently. The proponents of major water changes are shooting themselves in the foot here, because without nutrition a biological filter cannot function. The enormous planting provides sufficient oxygen for aerobic filtration, additionally supported by 4 oxidizers filled with hydrogen peroxide. Plants consume contamination, ammonium contains more and easily absorbable nitrogen than nitrate. Plants will therefore first consume the ammonium, relieving the nitrogen cycle.
4) Plastic bioballs ensure optimal mixing of the organic contamination, so that enzymes can catalyze the biological filtration by cracking the pollution. Sponge and cotton wool provide mechanical filtering that is easy to clean. Afterwards, the water passes through glass bead filters for filtration up to 5 microns. Just as in professional water purification, I use the MLE configuration, denitrification before nitrification. As a by-product, a base is created that provides more alkalinity, for better nitrification. Zeopool filters are used to extract very fine particles from the water and break them down biologically. An anoxic reactor filled with zeolite is used to house anammox bacteria. Here, ammonium is immediately converted into nitrogen gas N2 in the presence of nitrite as an oxygen source. No more nitrate build-up as in the classic nitrogen cycle. UV is used as disinfection and to crack organic contamination through photolysis. Hydroxyl radicals are generated through a hydra filter to oxidize contamination, viruses and germs. Purigen adsorbs the last residues that have not been filtered out. A large amount of sera siporax ensures very efficient biological filtration, which we never have to clean due to the pre-filtration. A 1 micron filter provides ultra-fine filtration. All systems are monitored to ensure they function properly. Plant food, CO2, root sticks, minerals and trace elements are composed by myself!
 
Interesting! I'll let others provide more detailed analysis on whether the above seems credible. I still maintain though, that is a huge amount of effort to go through , just to avoid draining off a bit of water and adding a bit more fresh water back in! Almost the entirety of that incredibly complex system could be avoided with a simple automated daily water change system.
 
Interesting! I'll let others provide more detailed analysis on whether the above seems credible. I still maintain though, that is a huge amount of effort to go through , just to avoid draining off a bit of water and adding a bit more fresh water back in! Almost the entirety of that incredibly complex system could be avoided with a simple automated daily water change system.
I agree, it sounds great what he has set up and is very innovative, Even though a lot of the detail goes over my head!

But surely it is easier to drain off some water every week and refill? It takes me under half an hour to do a 50 percent water change on my 5 foot tank. There are also added benefits to water changes, I don’t think I’d be spawning my corydoras without water changes. It’s a trigger they require.

Cheers
 
I can think of situations where if it achieved the same thing it would be prefereable to removing and replacing water e.g. if you were running a large system with different parametres to your tap water, you were in an area with water restrictions, water prices were high or your supply was very variable etc.
 
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