Is this benign?

[IrvineHimself]

I have yet to introduce myself, which I will do shortly, but I have a rather pressing algae question: I am completely new to the aquarium hobby and have started to plant an aquascape . At the weekend I bought even more plants [bucephalandra], a pile of fish [endlers. rabbit snails and pygmy corys] and planted some more riparian plants. Not unexpectedly, I have been getting nitrite spikes [nitrates and ammonia are great]. Yesterday, I flushed the tank and cleaned all the easily reachable areas, which greatly improved the situation. This afternoon the nitrites were just under 1mg/l, so I decided to clean under the hardscape. This consists of a network of tunnels running lengthwise along the tank made from rocks and sinkable drift wood bought on Amazon. when I lifted one of the rocks, I found this growing on a small section of one of the pieces of driftwood:

While it doesn't come out clearly on the uploaded photo, it is rather attractive. So, although I am slightly concerned about it's rate of growth [the driftwood has been in the tank for about a month now]; if it is benign, I am tempted to incorporate it into the scape.

Along with the livestock indicated above, I have half a dozen x-ray tetras, 3 rock gobies and a 10 cherry shrimp/ I also want to add half a dozen kuhlis, 3 more rock gobies, some nerites and another type of shrimp. The plants I currently have are pygmy bucephalandra, some larger bucephalandra, a single large anubis, a couple of dwarf anubis, weeping moss, christmas moss, some crypts, another rooted plant[I have forgotten the name], an a selection of stem plants. If in the opinion of the forum it is benign, I will just leave i; however, if it is noxious, will glutaraldehyde [liquid carbon] kill it?

If requested, I will try to get a clearer photo to ID the type of algae.

Many thanks,
Irvine

Edit: I forgot to mention the red root floaters

 

[seedoubleyou]

Looks like Cyano bacteria, not something you want in your tank.

Quick search of the forum and you’ll find all the information you could want for.

I’ve never experienced it myself so can’t suggest the best way of fighting it.

 

[IrvineHimself]

Thanks for the warning

 

[IrvineHimself]

Okay, after an evenings research. and noting cyanobacteria contains neuro-toxins so nitrite gloves are strongly recommended, this is what I have done:

1. Disassembled my hardscape and carefully inspected each piece for contamination
2. As a precaution, soaked uninfected pieces in my bactericide [10 minutes in potassium permanganate solution at 4mg/l]
3. Using small/modelling wire and nylon brushes, thoroughly scrubbed infected areas under running water
4. Using a soft [recycled] tooth brush, gently cleaned around attached epiphytic roots [ditto running water]
5. Gave infected hardscape another gentle brush in my solution of bactericide
6. Left to soak in bactericide for 10 to 15 minutes
7. Rinsed thoroughly in running water before placing in a solution of my de-chlorinator at 3 times normal strength
8. Thoroughly vacuumed any remaining detritus exposed by disassembling hardscape
9. Did a maximum flush of 90% of my tank.

Further, when my pension next comes through [end of month syndrome ], I am going to start dosing the tank with glutaraldehyde [liquid carbon] as part of my regular maintenance schedule. Note, this is not to replace CO2 injection, but rather as a prophylactic algaecide, [gluteral's actual purpose].

Also, since these problems can be associated with poor circulation, I have slightly rearranged the network of caves and am considering adding yet another air stone to generate a gentle current. Actually, with the ongoing heatwave, my heater is off, when it comes back on-line, because of it's position, by design, the resulting convection current will improve the circulation through the caves significantly! [More in my formal introduction to the forum]

I will keep you updated on how this works out in the long term.

Note, I could have used un-scented household bleach instead of potassium permanganate, but I already have precise, medical grade dosages of the latter for toe-nail fungus.

I have had a really busy morning, with more yet to do, so I will formally introduce myself later this afternoon

Irvine
Primary reference here

 

[castle]

Under some conditions it just gets a hold and goes for it. As for treatment, you either start again (abandon all of they stuff in your tank) or you learn to combat it.

It sounds like you’re on the right track regardless!

Combat is easy, but it does require some effort. I used to get BGA in a puffer tank (probably due to high organics from the snail shell) to remove I used to move my hands about in the tank wiggling my fingers and BGA would normally detach from hardscape and I’d be able to remove with a water change. I never got rid of it all, and easycarbo did nothing to combat it. I got used to it. I found that if I kept up on maintenance, had great plant growth and limited sunlight hitting the tank BGA receded. It never went away though.

Finally adding some alder cones definitely has a negative effect on BGA.

 

[IrvineHimself]

.... alder cones ...

That sounds interesting, I have just added them to my next shopping list, being in Scotland, my water my water is already slightly acidic, will they affect my endlers?

It sounds like you’re on the right track regardless!

That's good to know, thank you

.... I found that if I kept up on maintenance, had great plant growth and limited sunlight hitting the tank BGA receded....

I bought a whole bunch of red root floaters, which, while still small, seem to be doing well... In conjunction with the sponge filter, I have set up air stones in the other three corners of the tank, each with its own little control valves. By adjusting the rate of air-flow, I am forcing them to circulate under the floodlight. The intention being that, once they grow to full size and become established, they will seriously limit the amount of light getting to the lower levels. That is why I am concentrating on low light plants. Of which I want more.....

... I found that if I kept up on maintenance, had great plant growth and limited sunlight hitting the tank BGA receded.

I am getting old, and not really up to lugging around 20 litre buckets of water, so the most important item on my next shopping list is the python water change system. In conjunction with the battery operated gravel vac I recently bought, this should make keeping things under control much easier. Hopefully, I can just wiggle my fingers and vacuum up anything that is dislodged, before doing a major water change to grab anything that has escaped

Thanks for the encouragement
Irvine

 

[castle]

Ah, yeah, BGA is labour intensive. A decent siphon will do a lot of the hard work, and then a hose from tap to tank will do the rest. I helped someone years ago get a drip system and drain implemented on their aquarium as they recognised they can’t be lugging too much about!

I don’t think BGA is that caring about light, without a complete blackout. As in, turn off all lights and keep the tank covered for a while, a week would be best. Plants will really suffer for this.

Your floaters will do better without as much flow.

I did on a couple of occasions do 100%+ water changes where I would be siphoning water as I fill (ideally in sync with each other) doing a lot of hand waving in the tank. This really does work.

If you can find someone in the US to post it, there are some off the shelf solutions. Whether you have issues with using antibiotics is for you to decide 👍

 

[IrvineHimself]

Okay, I am still researching this, but, remembering I am neither an experienced aquarist nor a micro-biologist, despite many you-tubers offering it as a solution, it is possible treating the tank with liquid carbon may actually make things worse! My reasoning is that ecologically, less harmful algae is a direct competitor to BGA, so by adding gluteral I would basically be killing off the algae and thus allowing the BGA free reign. (Note: I suspect that when gluteral is used to treat BGA outbreaks in the wild, it is used at significantly higher concentrations than would be appropriate in an aquarium.)

Taking this simple analysis a step further, doping with bacteria like this to boost bio-film production would not only make my shrimps, rock gobies and pygmy corys very happy, but introduce a beneficial competitor to the BGA. In a similar vein, I am going to start using ADA Bacter 100 as a water conditioner and a spot treatment for further minor outbreaks., and am considering investing in ADA's Phyton-Git Sol as a treatment for more serious outbreaks.

Other steps I am taking is to seriously start working on my lighting schedule. The aim being to develop a daily schedule with the minimal spectrum and intensity of light to allow me to enjoy my tank and promote the growth of my Red-Root Floaters, yet discourage the growth of BGA!

Any comments and thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.
Irvine

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My reasoning is that ecologically, less harmful algae is a direct competitor to BGA, so by adding gluteral I would basically be killing off the algae and thus allowing the BGA free reign

You definitely got a point. You usually only get <"cyanobacteria (BGA) outbreaks"> in fairly new tanks, tanks that aren't stable. Have a look at <"Seasoned Tank Time">.

Taking this simple analysis a step further, doping with bacteria like this to boost bio-film production would not only make my shrimps, rock gobies and pygmy corys very happy, but introduce a beneficial competitor to the BGA.

You might be interested in <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

In a similar vein, I am going to start using ADA Bacter 100 as a water conditioner and a spot treatment for further minor outbreaks., and am considering investing in ADA's Phyton-Git Sol as a treatment for more serious outbreaks.

Other people will differ in their opinions, but as far as I'm concerned all that these do is transfer a sizeable chunk of your money to ADA.

Other steps I am taking is to seriously start working on my lighting schedule. The aim being to develop a daily schedule with the minimal spectrum and intensity of light to allow me to enjoy my tank and promote the growth of my Red-Root Floaters, yet discourage the growth of BGA!

Again other people will differ in their opinions, but I like to keep a reasonable amount of light, one reason being that it is <"very difficult to judge light intensity">.

cheers Darrel

 

[IrvineHimself]

one reason being that it is <"very difficult to judge light intensity">.

This is indeed the problem. at the moment I've read a couple of noob level articles on light spectrum [orange, red, blue.. etc] and plant growth, and, so far, haven't got anywhere near the question of which intensity. My primary approach has, so far, been trial and error. Initially, for the first few weeks, I was using Vermilion at 1% of a 6500 k floodlight for general viewing and, for growth, gradually increasing daylight from 1% to 100% and back to 1% over a 10 hour window. My floaters seemed to like this, but it is probably a major contributor to my BGA problem.

Yesterday, I set up a schedule where I have the daylight spectrum increasing from 80% to 100% and back over a two hour window, replacing the daylight with orange outside that time while maintaining vermilion at 1% for general viewing. I will closely monitor how well my plants like this schedule and continuously check for a recurrence of BGA and/or any other uninvited guests. At the same time, I am going to do further reading on how light spectrum and intensity affect plant growth.

I also noticed that there seems to be a great deal of disagreement on whether ADA products are worth the money or just snake oil. My initial view is that, since the Bacter 100 is dried bacteria, as oppose to live bacteria in suspension, [eg API Quick Start] it is definitely worth taking a closer look. Although, as you quite rightly suggested, I am definitely keeping an open mind on it's efficacy and value for money.

Thanks for the links, I have had a quick browse through them and will take a closer look later.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I will closely monitor how well my plants like this schedule and continuously check for a recurrence of BGA and/or any other uninvited guests. At the same time, I am going to do further reading on how light spectrum and intensity affect plant growth.

@oreo57 is probably your best bet for an answer. I use a <"floating plant as my nutrient canary"> mainly because they have access to atmospheric CO2, but they also <"perform net curtain duties">.

I also noticed that there seems to be a great deal of disagreement on whether ADA products are worth the money or just snake oil.

Very difficult to get a consensus, I tend to look a the areas where <"I have some expertise"> and if a companies products <"make sense"> in that area? I tend to give them a bit more credence.

My initial view is that, since the Bacter 100 is dried bacteria, as oppose to live bacteria in suspension, [eg API Quick Start] it is definitely worth taking a closer look.

As well as Dr Tim Hovanec, we've had correspondence with <"Dr Ryan Newton"> recently, and that leaves us in a much more informed position than most LFS or Forums, basically <"the bacteria that were thought to perform nitrification in aquarium filters don't">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Oldguy]

glutaraldehyde [liquid carbon] kill it?

Yes and no. Same with hydrogen peroxide. Dosing would be by syringe (oral syringe from your local chemist also you can get hydrogen perxiode from the chemist) or pipette (the small plastic type) and topically apply.
Lots of dosage guidance on the inert net.
Good luck.

 

[kayjo]

If you can find someone in the US to post it, there are some off the shelf solutions. Whether you have issues with using antibiotics is for you to decide 👍

In the US people recommend UltraLife Blue Green slime stain remover or Chemiclean. Some fish stores use erythromycin.

 

[Myrtle]

I had a bit of an outbreak recently and looked at the ada stuff, then promptly spat out my coffee and bought Easy-Life Blue Exit for 6 quid instead. Cheap as chips and did the job in my tanks

 

[IrvineHimself]

Thanks @dw1305, with the benefit of hindsight, because local bacteria will be better attuned attuned to local conditions, this comment by <"Dr Ryan Newton"> actually makes a lot of intuitive sense

..... However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run......

I obviously have a lot of reading to do here. Many thanks again for the links
Irvine

 

[IrvineHimself]

I had a bit of an outbreak recently and looked at the ada stuff, then promptly spat out my coffee and bought Easy-Life Blue Exit for 6 quid instead. Cheap as chips and did the job in my tanks

Thanks, at the moment, since I scrubbed the two small affected areas on my driftwood and soaked all the individual pieces of hardscape in a solution of potassium per-magnate, I don't actually have BGA [touch wood]. Currently, what I am thinking of is some kind of prophylactic treatment. But, I will definitely bear your suggestion in mind