Is Tom Barr's Approach Still The Go To Approach For Low Tech?

[Harry Muscle]

It's been a while since I've done research on low tech planted tanks and I know about 15 years ago the most commonly recommended approach was the one that Tom Barr described at Non CO2 methods. However, he doesn't seem to be active much anymore in the aquarium community and I was wondering if his ideas and recommendations have been improved on or even replaced or is his approach still the recommended approach for low tech planted tanks?

If I was looking for a good link or two to send to someone describing all the details (in similar depth to what Tom Barr went into) of setting up a non CO2 planted tank what would you recommend?

Thanks,
Harry

 

[ElleDee]

It's not the worst starting point, but I wouldn't stop my research there. I think the most outdated advice on that page is probably the lighting - the watts per gallon rules are all from before LEDs, which are fairly ubiquitous now and use much less power. The recommendation for Equilibrium is also not great for a number of reasons. There are other points I would quibble with, but I think a better use of your time would be to explore other perspectives rather than dissect one missive from Tom Barr from 2005. He says plenty of sensible stuff there too, but I don't think that's the whole story by a long shot in 2024.

I can't point to a single person and say "forget Barr, use this person instead" because it depends on what your goals are. I don't care what anybody says - there are multiple approaches that will work to make a successful low tech tank, but it depends on what kind of low tech tank you want. What's the priority? Some people want plants just to make life better for their fish, some want something akin to a functioning ecosystem, some want as little maintenance as possible, some want to mimic the style ofa high tech tank, etc. These all are possible to achieve (though some are much more difficult), but require an approach tailored to the end goal.

Research is a good way to figure out what you want, and then once you have a direction you can drill down into which methods will serve you best. The forum archives are a great resource, YouTube has some good content, I think Diana Walstad's book is still a great reference, and of course pitch your specific questions to us - there is lots of experience to draw from around here.

You'll find some points where there's broad agreement and others where you are getting conflicting information. The latter can be frustrating because it can be impossible to figure out who is correct, but unfortunately that's the nature of the hobby. I suggest you listen most to people who have the kind of aquarium you want first and emulate them, but make a note of the dissenting voices because you might need to go back to them if you run into problems. And I think everyone's goals change over time as you get experience and grow, and you might find yourself thinking, "you know, maybe so-and-so was on to something there."

 

[foxfish]

This is a good one to read through…..

Low-energy Soil Substrate Scape

Just finished setting this up for my eldest son in his new home. A neighbour was giving away an old bow fronted Aqua One Aquastart 500 with stand and accessories. Thought I'd have a go at scaping a low-energy soil tank since it's been a while. It was designed to be viewed from the front and LH...

www.ukaps.org

 

[_Maq_]

I think Barr's "method" for low-tech is actually invalid because his approach inevitably leads to the conclusion that without CO2 injection good results are impossible. His approach in general is tailored to people who do not like to spend much time studying while spending money is no problem. Majority of hobbyists fit into this category, and from this fact evolves common belief that very many plant species cannot be cultivated successfully without CO2 enhancement. This is not true, but to do it requires very very different approach from those of Tom Barr or Diana Walstad.

 

[Tim Harrison]

There is this one, and I’m still around if you have any questions 🙂

Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide

Tom’s article is still very much relevant and it can be adapted to suit different goals. I still link it if I think it might be helpful.

@_Maq_ That’s perhaps a little unfair. I’ve no doubt Tom has grown a great many plant species typically thought of as high-energy without CO2, and goes in to some detail about how to do that in his article.

Also, I would've thought you’d have agreed with at least some of what he’s written in that article. For one thing I think he suggests using onyx sand as substrate.

 

[ElleDee]

I think Barr's "method" for low-tech is actually invalid because his approach inevitably leads to the conclusion that without CO2 injection good results are impossible. His approach in general is tailored to people who do not like to spend much time studying while spending money is no problem. Majority of hobbyists fit into this category, and from this fact evolves common belief that very many plant species cannot be cultivated successfully without CO2 enhancement. This is not true, but to do it requires very very different approach from those of Tom Barr or Diana Walstad.

@_Maq_ It is true that our understanding of what species can be grown low tech has evolved a lot since 2005, and the methods outlined do not maximize the options there.

But your assumptions about other people's motivations don't ring true to me at all and seem to stem more from your own biases than from the methods Tom lays out. It's great that you have a specific point of view and you don't need to change it for anyone when it comes to your own tanks, but that doesn't invalidate other goals and approaches. Being able to grow demanding species is not the sole, undisputed pinnacle of the hobby, especially for people choosing not to inject CO2 in the first place. Let people do their own thing.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Watch this one for starters: <"Help needed with 0 Nitrates Levels">?

If I was looking for a good link or two to send to someone describing all the details (in similar depth to what Tom Barr went into) of setting up a non CO2 planted tank what would you recommend?

This is a good one to read through…..

Low-energy Soil Substrate Scape

Just finished setting this up for my eldest son in his new home. A neighbour was giving away an old bow fronted Aqua One Aquastart 500 with stand and accessories. Thought I'd have a go at scaping a low-energy soil tank since it's been a while. It was designed to be viewed from the front and LH...

www.ukaps.org

There is this one, and I’m still around if you have any questions 🙂

Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide

and this one for managing the tank once it is up and growing <"What is the “Duckweed Index” all about?">? It borrows from both Tom Barr (@plantbrain) and <"Diana Walstad">.

The main advice I don't like for a low-tec is "don't change any water". I don't subscribe to the "fluctuating CO2 causes algae" mantra and I'm a great believer in water changes in all tanks.

cheers Darrel

 

[_Maq_]

your assumptions about other people's motivations don't ring true to me at all and seem to stem more from your own biases than from the methods Tom lays out.

Am I biased? Most likely so. But when I ask myself where comes this bias from, it's mostly the (half-)beginners I'm in contact with, either personally, or through means like this forum. Tom Barr and Takashi Amano are surely two personalities who made deep imprint on this hobby. These two guys may be okay but their legacy is often interpreted in ways which am quite unhappy from. Aquascaping makes people focus on the aesthetic side of the matter and detracts their attention from what is essential - functionality. And Tom Barr's guides to fertilization/mineralization never go to the core of the matter but instead to workarounds for those who cannot or don't want to employ an informed approach.

Being able to grow demanding species is not the sole, undisputed pinnacle of the hobby, especially for people choosing not to inject CO2 in the first place. Let people do their own thing.

You're right. Call me a fundamentalist. This is aquatic plants society, and cultivating aquatic plants should be a pinnacle of this forum, if not of this hobby. But still, when reading arguments for using CO2, "the possibility to keep demanding species" is never missing among them. That is the result of the fact that majority of hobbyists set about pursuing this goal from baseline significantly influenced by Tom Barr and the likes.
At least, it seems like that to me. Estimative Index seems to be a generally accepted starting point.

 

[ElleDee]

Aquascaping makes people focus on the aesthetic side of the matter and detracts their attention from what is essential - functionality.

Functionality? Aesthetics is a function! People grow plants for their beauty and have done so for as long as we've had cultivation. Do you get mad at people for having flower gardens? What about paintings in their house or musical instruments?

And Tom Barr's guides to fertilization/mineralization never go to the core of the matter but instead to workarounds for those who cannot or don't want to employ an informed approach.

I don't know what you mean by "core of the issue". If the tools and methods don't work, that's one thing. If they do, it's not a workaround, that's horticulture.

You're right. Call me a fundamentalist. This is aquatic plants society, and cultivating aquatic plants should be a pinnacle of this forum, if not of this hobby. But still, when reading arguments for using CO2, "the possibility to keep demanding species" is never missing among them. That is the result of the fact that majority of hobbyists set about pursuing this goal from baseline significantly influenced by Tom Barr and the likes.
At least, it seems like that to me. Estimative Index seems to be a generally accepted starting point.

This is a hobby forum, not a professional society. There is no tank police. We are each on our own journey and I fell the highest aim here is to give and receive help to and from others.

The way existing paradigms are changed is by demonstrated success and information sharing. That is how Amano and Barr and Walstad became so recognized to begin with, not by being the final word in aquatic plants.

 

[Tim Harrison]

@_Maq_ I think the point is it’s not necessary to denigrate one method in order to validate another.

There is more than one route to success. And I’m sure yours works for you, just as Tom’s works for many hobbyists.

Please try not to wade in with your opinion at every opportunity, especially regarding sand substrate and CO2. It’s best saved for your journal.

 

[foxfish]

I am sure Tom did do a very successful non C02 tank, I seem to remember it had very bright lighting too?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am sure Tom did do a very successful non C02 tank,

He definitely did. I'll see if I can find it, I can actually remember what it looked like, but that doesn't help with searching for it on the forum.

I remember his low tech tank for Hypancistrus zebra L46 <"Update on the ADA no CO2 046L Zebra pleco 60p tank">.

It was mainly emergents, but nice.

cheers Darrel

 

[Tim Harrison]

That he did. He posted a few in my soil substrate tutorial thread. There was some great discussion too, and that is definitely worth a read as well 🙂

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I can actually remember what it looked like, but that doesn't help with searching for it on the forum.

That one.

cheers Darrel

 

[shangman]

My favourite inspirational lowtech reads are from @BigTom - Bucket of Mud and Poco Pozo. They eally changed how I thought about my aquarium and what it could be, thinking about it more as an ecosystem and a habitat for a community of fish.

 

[castle]

My favourite inspirational lowtech reads are from @BigTom - Bucket of Mud and Poco Pozo. They eally changed how I thought about my aquarium and what it could be, thinking about it more as an ecosystem and a habitat for a community of fish.

Water volume, and surface area do some real wonders for water stability and in turn plant growth. Not to devalue Toms tanks; they’re inspirational to me too, much like how this one ( Biotope in my study, a low-tech natural aquarium - tuncalik.com - Natural Aquariums and Sustainable Life ) was an inspiration for Tom, and I haha.

That he did. He posted a few in my soil substrate tutorial thread. There was some great discussion too, and that is definitely worth a read as well 🙂

View attachment 215173

This one has been an image burned into my brain for years, just a “what can be done” kind of tank.

 

[_Maq_]

This is a hobby forum, not a professional society. There is no tank police. We are each on our own journey

@_Maq_ I think the point is it’s not necessary to denigrate one method in order to validate another.

The title of this thread clearly presents a question: Is Tom Barr's Approach Still The Go To Approach For Low Tech? I don't see why it's wrong to reply just as clearly: No, it's not and never was.
Then I get responses in the sense that there are many roads and many goals. Well, then there's perhaps no reply to the question and any discussion makes no sense.

If the goal is not clear, then no road fits.
If there is a goal but we don't seek the best road to get there, then any road fits.
And if there are many goals then it's pointless to ask (and respond) whether one particular road (Tom Barr's Approach) is the way to go.

My mistake that I'd assumed that at "aquatic plants society" the well-being of aquatic plants is the default goal. Apparently, it's not that clear, and I'd rather quit participation in such a vague talk.

 

[Tim Harrison]

@_Maq_ I think it’s clear our ultimate goal is to grow healthy plants. Is your road the only one that leads to that destination ?

 

[erwin123]

This is not the first time Maq has expressed his views on this matter and I agree with many of the responses here to his views.

I have a day job so I can't spend all my time maintaining the tank.

So I would like to have an easy to follow 'recipe' that enables me to have nice plants with less effort (because I have a day job and I don't WFH 7 days a week). To me, the recipe is CO2+Aquasoil+Tropica Specialised+plenty of filtration and flow+Good lighting.

I'm not here to say that this recipe is the only way to grow nice plants. I just like looking at my plants grow (and get overgrown), I don't need to do tank maintenance every day, in what universe is that a bad thing?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The title of this thread clearly presents a question: Is Tom Barr's Approach Still The Go To Approach For Low Tech? I don't see why it's wrong to reply just as clearly: No, it's not and never was.

Go on, <"say what you think">. At least there is no ambiguity to where you stand.

My mistake that I'd assumed that at "aquatic plants society" the well-being of aquatic plants is the default goal. Apparently, it's not that clear, and I'd rather quit participation in such a vague talk.

I think we are, and need to be, <"a broad church">, so I'd guess the "vague talk" will, and has to, remain.

cheers Darrel