Journal on my new 200L low tech with Under Gravel Filter

[JnSchutz]

Hello guys and gals!
For a quite long time I was preparing myself to set up a new planted tank using under gravel filter (UGF), but I also wanted to try the lasagna method that I learned with Alex, from the "Fishtory, the History behind your aquarium" a YT channel that I find quite informative.

I took a while gathering information and all the stuff that I needed for this project.
Initially I had it planned for a used 150 L, 74x34x60(h). Yes it was a tall tank.
And I bought everything I need accordingly to this tank size.

But then, the worst happened, my old 200L planted aquarium crashed due resonance vibration. I know it may be odd, but it suffered from this vibration for nearly 8 months. Until the top seams came to failure.

Here is a pic of the old tank the day before it crashed:

I know it may not be the greatest aquascaping, but I was quite proud of it hehe.

It was also a low tech tank

Now it's time to split the post.
In the next one I will starting talking more about the aquarium specs.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

After the physical crash, I had to lower the water level and wait for a new tank, the Angelfish was donated.
My plants suffered a little bit during those days:

It stayed like this for a few weeks.
But overall it did great, I added springtails to deal with mold, that appeared after I lowered the water level. The fish loved it.

Now that I have talked a little bit more about the crash and what I did, let's talk about the aquarium specs.
Lighting; water flow rate, filtration, substrate etc.

The new aquarium is the same size of the old one: 200L - 100x40x50(h), I prefer aquarium with lid on top of it to avoid evaporation and the heater is set at 22°C, almost room temperature, but it the winter it can get chill.

The filtration is UGF, running by a power head of 600l/h.
Lighting is a DIY lamp, that I will talk more in another post, this one is quite long already

Cheers
Jonni

 

[foxfish]

Good luck with your new set up.

 

[Cazza]

Gutting about the old one, but onwards and upwards! Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

 

[JnSchutz]

Let's talk about DIY.
In Brazil aquarium lights are really expensive for us. Not just because it is expensive, but our paycheck is short too haha.
So I made a wooden light support to hold all the lamps.
I used the same light setting that I was using in the previous tank, but I want to share with you what I'm using.

This light is set up with five lamps that the amount of lumens it provides is at least 4400lm.
Why is that at least?
Because four out of five I removed the whitish plastic cover that came attached to it.

For the ones that are interested in knowing what exactly lamp I am using, here are the specs
2 flex led light that each give 400 lumens, 6400k, at 5W - 30cm long
2 flex led light that each give 800 lumens, 6400k, at 10W - 60 cm long
Those lamps I can attach to each other making a 90cm long, 15W - 1200 lumens
It was this four lamps that I removed the whitish cover.

This was the ones, they are cheap, like £2 for each of 30cm and £3 for the 60cm ones. (But they are lasting quite a while now, so it is a win win)

And there is one that is meant to be in humid environment.
It is a 20W led light that gives 2000lm, 6400k. This one I didn't removed the whitish cover.
This one cost around £6.

So the total light it gives is about 4400 lumens, plus the ones I got after removing the white cover. So I have 2400 lumens light that got their cover removed, should I put it back maybe?
I would love to hear your opinion, I think I have too much light, but usually I have floating plants, to make some shade, but maybe I can make this tank a little bit more low-energy, so I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

In another post I will talk a little bit more about my current flora.

Ps: all those lamps have a 2 year warranty, they are cheap, long lasting and have a good warranty, and the store I bought them from, just said, if it fails, bring it back, so I will not need to go through customer service. (But I'm quite sure the warranty has already expired, those lamps really paid off).

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

I think it is time to talk about the filtration sistem and how I set it up, as well some info about the substrate layout.

At the front bottom I put the UGF plastic thing (don't know the proper name in English) and some geo fabric over it.

This yellow plastic is about 12cmx12cm each, and I put it just in front of the tank, or as nearly as possible, it is around 6 cm towards the back.
The uplift tube I painted with black spray, for good aesthetics.

For better fluid dynamics, I divided the pull in two, at the center

On top of the plates I used around 8L of crushed red lava rock (it took me a really long time crushing it)

But I think it is enough for now.
In the next post I will share the substrate layout, it is at the same time simple and complex, because I used active substrate around the plates.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

Continuing on filtration and starting the substrate layout.

I love substrates and the whole dynamics it has, although I'm not a pro, or a well versed in this topic, I really love it, more like a child that don't know much but truly appreciate.

Let's give you some picture

All around the plates, and above the geo fabric, I added a layer of sand, and of the previous aquarium substrate, I thought, Why not use that whole bunch of beneficial bacteria to start of?
So I used it.
I added a generous amount of it, around the plates and used most of it to make a slope towards the back
Above the plates of the UGF, I placed around 8 liters of crushed lava rock and went around 2-3 cm higher than the sand layer.

On sand top I added a special soil compost (engineered for growing the stuff that has psychotropics), more of this on the following post.
For this I put around 2-3 cm thick layer of that bio soil, but not on top of the lava rock, this is important.

I also put old ceramic rings, I had a handful of it, and just put in there, above the lava rock.

To cap everything I used black basalt n1 (around 3mm) to give a nice look.
I don't have pictures of this part, but I think it would be redundant.

So, let's talk about that weird soil that I find somewhere and was "why does it say it will be delivered in a discreet package?"
More on the next post

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

So I was browsing the internet looking for substrate of various kind.

Then I find this one, very well presented and with the following guarantees of nutrients readily available:
P: 250 mg/dm³
K: 28 mmol/dm³
Ca: 380 mmol/dm³
Mg: 80 mmol/dm³
Ph in CaCl2: 6,14 (don't know what it means really, so if anyone would like to explain I would love to know)

Then I was, well, it seems to have a good ratio (I don't know much about ratios, just what I have read here and there) but it seemed nice.
I noticed it didn't provide Nitrogen, so I thought "My fish will poop that out"

To prepare the active layer, I added two parts of it for one part of hummus.
I have my own culture of worms, that I constantly feed on banana peel, I guess potassium won't be a issue for quite while (please inform me if I am wrong, I really want to know more about it)

Word of warning. It increased my GH from 3 to 10. The KH stayed at 0 or 1.
And I think I will be running this tank at low KH anyways.

So, feel free to share your thoughts on this.

Soon I will add more info about this project

A quick edit: the KH is about 3-4 dKH, I have read it wrong. I was quite tired and it was a while that I didn't use my API test kit, then I just forgot it was supposed to go from blue to orange...

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

Now I have shared about the main characteristics of my new set up, after gutting about the old one as @Cazza has pointed out.
So far I have used the old substrate, lights and heater (which is set at 22°C)

Then it was time for planting.

In the front I planted some Sagittaria subulata, or maybe it was a plant that look alike.
I bought it few years ago and it developed in three different ways, that at the time I separated them to keep an eye to see if they were the same plant.
Some of them stayed short and their runners stayed short. Some of them grew up to 10-15 cm, then I separated them and planted in another part of the aquarium and their runners followed the same pattern.
And other grew quite tall, around 30cm, those I planted in the back and their runners also grew tall.

In this new setup, I kept them separated, but I had way more short runners than taller ones.

A close up of my lasagna.

I also added Sagittaria Graminea, around 5 or 6, they are not looking as good as they were before the crash. But they will be fine I think
I planted them in the left front corner to add a layer of interest before the Cryptocoryne that was identified in this forum as Cryptocoryne balansae, I have found the receipt when I bought it and it was labelled as Cryptocoryne spiralis. It is reddish around the leaves base.

Towards the back, in the left I planted some sort of Bacopa, just a few stems, by the side of Cryptocoryne towards the middle, I tied some Lomariopsis lineata with Java Fern in a piece of driftwood, trying to make it look nice.
At the back, in the center I planted some Limnophila sessiflora, in front of it I planted what was left of my Echinoduros gabrielli, and behind the nice driftwood that I found around the beach I planted what was left of my Echinoduros grisebachi. And also tied some Lomariopsis lineata (Suswassertang) around a rock that was attached to the drift wood to help it sink

For floats I have Amazon frogbit, and philanthus fluitans

So the tank looked like this after all the planting

And like this after totally flooded

Beautiful innit?

The first day I turned some tests.
pH: 7.2
GH: 10
KH: 0 - 1 (just one drop the water turned blue) (sic)

Note that I used almost all the water I had in the crashed tank, because I kept the fish in it.

The pH was 7,4, GH 4, KH ? (it was low as well, but don't remember how low).

After 24 I measured it again before performing 20% water change
The pH increased to 7,4. But it wasn't my tap water, as it reads 7.
So I think it has something to do with the previous water pH, or the substrate, as I used the old one too.

This was day two.

Some cloudiness, but nothing to worry about.
I put the fish almost at the same time I had set it up, just waited a little bit, if you look the picture after I set it up you will see lots of floating plants roots, I have tons of it, I let it run 24 with loads of floats.

This was the third day (16/05/2024), two days ago
The water has improved even more, I cracked the power head to add as much oxygen as possible into the water column, to encourage the bacterial growth. (This is what I have read somewhere in this forum)

Soon I will be updating more, but as for now I'm out of town, so I can't follow how it is developing in the first days, I had a family emergency to attend.

I thought I could talk a little bit about the fauna, but it is mainly platies, mollies, a tricogaster Ramshorn snails, nerites, trumpet snails, bladder snails. So I think it is all all have to say about the fauna.

I would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions
I want to add new plants and I'm open to suggestions.

A quick edit: the KH is about 3-4 dKH, I have read it wrong. I was quite tired and it was a while that I didn't use my API test kit, then I just forgot it was supposed to go from blue to orange.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Ph in CaCl2: 6,14 (don't know what it means really, so if anyone would like to explain I would love to know)

It is to do with cation exchange, but if you extract a soil with calcium chloride (CaCl2.NH20), rather than water, it is pH is a more accurate representation of the soil pH. The reason its quoted is there is about 1 pH unit difference, so that would be nearer to pH 7.4 in a water extract <"pH, Measurement of pH in Soil">.

I added a layer of sand, and of the previous aquarium substrate, I thought, Why not use that whole bunch of beneficial bacteria to start of?

We have a thread for you <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">. Dr Newton says

.... If you do need to add nitrifiers the best source is from an aquaponics or aquaculture system that is already running and removing ammonia. Some water or sediment/soil or part of the biobilter (if there is one) is an excellent starter. Without this source as an inoculum then you could add some roots from plants from any other tank that is running - these are likely to have nitrifiers associated with them. A small clipping put into the tank would be enough. In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days .........

The water has improved even more, I cracked the power head to add as much oxygen as possible into the water column, to encourage the bacterial growth. (This is what I have read somewhere in this forum)

We are pretty keen on <"dissolved oxygen">.

cheers Darrel

 

[JnSchutz]

Hey there

It is to do with cation exchange, but if you extract a soil with calcium chloride (CaCl2.NH20), rather than water, it is pH is a more accurate representation of the soil pH. The reason its quoted is there is about 1 pH unit difference, so that would be nearer to pH 7.4 in a water extract <"pH, Measurement of pH in Soil">.

So, just for me to clarify.
I read the article you quoted, and if I got this right, when measuring pH using the CaCl2.NH20 extract we are not measuring the CEC per si, either it is high or low, but purely reading pH using the cation exchange of CaCL absorbed in water solution. Is it right? I don't want to make confusion with the methodology.

Another thing that I was wondering, if my reading of 7,4 pH in the second day, was because something was raising the pH after the new setup, or if it was because the water I used was already at 7,4 (note that I used the old aquarium water because I was short on dechlorinator) .

We have a thread for you <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">.

I have heard something about it, but not in a scientific way. For instance: I knew beneficial bacteria grow in surface, there may be some free floating in the water column, but not as nearly as it appears in surface, this is why we have coarse and very porous media. It is like common sense.
But knowing how fast it helps inoculating from previous media is something to take note.
I never used those bacterial starters that we find in the market, I'm setting up planted tanks for a while now and always have a bunch of plant that I move around. Unknowingly I was inoculating my aquarium with beneficial bacteria just by moving plants around, I knew some were there, but didn't thought how big deal was it.
I thought, well this bad boys floats will deal with amônia for me, but I was doing way more than just putting some floating.

We are pretty keen on <"dissolved oxygen">.

This is what I was talking, thanks for quoting.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[bazz]

Hi,
I'm not trying to be negative here I just have a genuine interest in what you might think will happen with the substrate once plants are being removed/moved around?
The majority of the pumice from the ADA Power sand that was laid down as a base layer in my tank now lies on the top of the substrate.
Cheers!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I read the article you quoted, and if I got this right, when measuring pH using the CaCl2.NH20 extract we are not measuring the CEC per si, either it is high or low, but purely reading pH using the cation exchange of CaCL absorbed in water solution. Is it right?

Yes, if you have soils with a large clay (or humus) content water based extraction doesn't work very well, because the ions remain bound to the exchange surfaces.

..... When the soil is diluted with water , most of the H+ ions tend to remain attracted to the soil particles and are not released into the soil solution. The addition of small amounts of calcium chloride provides Ca2+ ions to replace some of the H+ ions on the soil particles, forcing the hydrogen ions into the solution and making their concentration in the bulk solution closer to that found in the field. The pH measured in CaCl² is almost always lower than pH of the same soil measured in water due to the higher concentration of H+. The procedure gives a value similar to that for natural soil solution because the soil solution also contains dissolved Ca2+ and other ions ....

Another thing that I was wondering, if my reading of 7,4 pH in the second day, was because something was raising the pH after the new setup, or if it was because the water I used was already at 7,4 (note that I used the old aquarium water because I was short on dechlorinator) .

Just an unknown really, <"pH is a funny measurement"> and it only needs a small amount of additional OH- to raise the pH (in low conductivity situations).

I'm setting up planted tanks for a while now and always have a bunch of plant that I move around. Unknowingly I was inoculating my aquarium with beneficial bacteria just by moving plants around, I knew some were there, but didn't thought how big deal was it.

I'm guessing that is what a lot of us do. I'm still considering whether <"Secret Ingredient Soup"> might be a <"viable business">.

cheers Darrel

 

[JnSchutz]

Hello, hello

Hi,
I'm not trying to be negative here I just have a genuine interest in what you might think will happen with the substrate once plants are being removed/moved around?
The majority of the pumice from the ADA Power sand that was laid down as a base layer in my tank now lies on the top of the substrate.
Cheers!

Well, I'm not sure on how this "bio soil" that I bought is gonna to behave, if it is going to lay on top or stay at the bottom.
My experience with dirt substrate has taught me that it will stay at the bottom, but this one was way fluffier and quite stubborn to be soggy. So there is a chance for it to move up.

But, where there is will there is hope haha.
I hope that my UGF will keep things in check.

And about moving plants around, I usually do not move them, I let them be were they are, because I like to see how things take their courses.
Clearly I trimm the Limnophila sessiflora and replant it shorter, but I don't uproot what was left, I just leave it there either to sprout new shoots (which I find more unlikely, because there is too much shade) or to melt down.

Yesterday I got new trimmings from a friend that runs a high tech, and maybe there will be more planting.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

Hey yo

I'm guessing that is what a lot of us do. I'm still considering whether <"Secret Ingredient Soup"> might be a <"viable business">.

I think it may be,
Last week I was asked to set up a aquarium for a friend, and suggested using some of my old substrate as starter, at first he thought it was nonsense, due to some dangerous stuff coming along, which is a valid point.

But after I told him about that your correspondence with Dr. Ryan Newton, and his findings on nitrifying bacteria, he asked me to bring some bits of my substrate, and some trimmings too, and I will be paid to provide it.
It is a matter of time for people asking a more selected bacteria culture, not just some random mix and macht.

Cheers
Jonni

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It is a matter of time for people asking a more selected bacteria culture, not just some random mix and match.

You would <"want a diverse microbial assemblage">, developed under <"fairly low ammonia loadings">. That is why a leaf mold grown plant would work, you don't need to know which specific bacteria and archaea are present, just that you <"have a high diversity of them">, and that is all you need.

The tank conditions (ammonia loading, pH, dissolved oxygen level etc.) would then produce their own "designer microbial pick & mix" specific to that particular tank. The tank does the "choosing", the secret is just to give it a large range of options to choose from, even better is that the microbial assemblage will then change, dependent upon the prevailing conditions.

That was, in some ways, where this all started. The problem for the producers of "aquarium" starter cultures etc. is that they are buying (or possibly producing) mixes for the, much larger, <"septic tank market">.

<"I've been pretty sure"> that the <"traditional view of nitrification wasn't right">, for a long time, but didn't really have any <"ammunition"> to back that view up.

Once people could search for the genes that <"coded for ammonia and nitrite oxidation">? <"The past is a foreign country">*.

You might be interested in our thread with Dr Tim Hovanec: <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements"> & <"Tim Hovanec's "Nitrification in marine aquarium" article">

*<"A quote from The Go-Between">

cheers Darrel

 

[JnSchutz]

Today I have a update on the 200L tank

Let's start with a picture, that my sister kindly sent me because I am out of town.

This picture she took yesterday, five days after the set-up.
I think the light may be too bright. What do you think?

The total volume of this aquarium is 200L,
Which 115L is the water column, 65L is plain substrate. Around 35 L was the old tank substrate.

In other post I will show you a side view of the tank.

For now I can't share water parameters, as soon as I get home I will share with you with more details

Cheers
Jonni

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I think the light may be too bright. What do you think?

It is <"really difficult to judge">. That is partially why I like a floating plant, it performs both <"nutrient reduction"> and <"net curtain duties">.

cheers Darrel

 

[JnSchutz]

Hi all,

It is <"really difficult to judge">. That is partially why I like a floating plant, it performs both <"nutrient reduction"> and <"net curtain duties">.

cheers Darrel

Yeah, I also use floats.

I like the shade they provide and how you can adjust it with different kinds of floating plants

This is my 100L low tech

But I will keep an eye on the lights in the new setup, because it is way shorter in plant mass.

I'll be posting updates on how it develops

Cheers
Jonni

 

[JnSchutz]

So, it is time for a update.

This picture I took last night when I arrived at home, I was out of town for nearly 5 days.

Today, the nineth day since it was set up, the readings are:
pH 7,6 (I measure just two hours after the lights went on, in the morning. Usually I measure it at night, before it is turned off) so it may be some pH variation, or not. Tonight I will check again.

KH: 0-1 dKH, stayed the same.
GH: 14 dGH, it has increased 4 dGH. The very first two days the reading were 10.
I think it has to do with the stone that I placed on top of the drift wood to sink it. Or something else
The other culprit can be ferts, I added KCL, in a DIY recipe. That adds 15ppm of potassium for every dose of 22ml in a 200L tank.
Also I'm adding Seachem flourish, for trace elements, 4ml for 200L aquarium.

I just have 115L of water column, should I decrease the dosing? I started this regimen few weeks ago in other tanks.

Today I also added some more plants, I received them in a bucket from a friend from his high-tech set up.

Here are the plants I added, there are more, but they are really short, so I can't get a nice shot of them.

This reddish I don't know the name

This small leaves one, between the Sagittaria subulata (?) I added today from another tank, I just have a small amount of it.

This yellowish, light green with small leaves was added today also.

And so was these two, red with small leaves and reddish with rounder and bigger leaves.

I would love some help IDing those plants

A quick edit: the KH is about 3-4 dKH, I have read it wrong. I was quite tired and it was a while that I didn't use my API test kit, then I just forgot it was supposed to go from blue to orange...

Cheers
Jonni