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Leaving hobby or move to Low Tech (260 litre bow fronted tank)

Cool, thanks this is what I was hoping for, I might start this weekend and prepare this ready for adding the powdered clay when I get some

Plant list next 🙂
 
Talk about delayed gratification...you really are taking your time to get it right😉
 
Under 2 weeks to go (ish) well i want to change before the existing c02 runs out so i can keep as many plants as possible and algae free.
So been busy and ordered 2.5 k of powdered clay, some dolomite and muriate of potash, soil just needs drying a tad to riddle off any unwanted stones etc. Sand cap on it's way too. Really up for this now . need to choose some wood and rocks/stones and get an order in for some java moss, java fern and a couple more plants.
So final planning stages now i can try and enjoy putting this together
 
Sorry for jumping in, but a few weeks back I started my fisrt dirted tank.Basicly plonked a wetish layer of John innes 3 and then capped with fine gravel(a ratio of 1.1)
. I've been reading this thread and the use of mineralizing the soil? Is this nessersery? Am I'm going to run into difficulties down the road?
Is mineralizing solely to minimize ammonia concentration or is there a greater importance in doing so?
Many thanks
 
wick said:
Is mineralizing solely to minimize ammonia concentration or is there a greater importance in doing so?
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The washing cycles of the mineralizing help minimize cloudiness of the soil upon unplanting. When mineralized, soil settles very fast.
Mineralizing the soil means converting organics to non-organic components e.g nitrates which the plants can use, avoid ammonia production stage inside the tank which can reach dangerous levels depending on tank, plants amount, fish amount.
Soil will eventually mineralize in the tank even if not pre-mineralized but this leads to very high oxygen demands=bad for flora and fauna, risk of soil going anaerobic at the start, suffocating fish, etc..
 
sciencefiction said:
The washing cycles of the mineralizing help minimize cloudiness of the soil upon unplanting. When mineralized, soil settles very fast.
Mineralizing the soil means converting organics to non-organic components e.g nitrates which the plants can use, avoid ammonia production stage inside the tank which can reach dangerous levels depending on tank, plants amount, fish amount.
Soil will eventually mineralize in the tank even if not pre-mineralized but this leads to very high oxygen demands=bad for flora and fauna, risk of soil going anaerobic at the start, suffocating fish, etc..
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Thanks sciencefiction.I have my plants on order, so as of yet it's devoid of any plants or indeed fish for that matter.Im just running it through the initial cycle.
Probably an impossible question to answer,-: but roughly how long would you say it'll take to eventualky mineralize.?
 
Mineralizing soil prior to its introduction in to a tank is just one method of setting up a soil substrate scape. Another way is the way you have done it. Personally I don't really see the benefit of mineralizing soil first, and have always allowed the soil to mineralize in the tank once flooded. There are various benefits to doing this and they are explained in greater detail in the tutorial linked below.
 
Allowing the soil to release its N compounds when flooded is a useful way to cycle a filter, coupled with lower light levels , plants should settle nicely. Although a few species do not cope well with high ammonia.
If memory serves- it was a two week cycle last time I used a soil/ compost substrate.
Water changes can help reduce the ammonia build up.
 
Cheers guys, That's reassuring to know.Not that I could ever imagine myself pulling the whole tank back to scratch.
 
Troi said:
Personally I don't really see the benefit of mineralizing soil first, and have always allowed the soil to mineralize in the tank once flooded.
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Yes, but then again you use mesh to separate the soil from the top layer. Why is that, you soil floats up easily when disturbed, tank looks dirty, soil doesn't settle? Have you tried mineralized soil in a tank to compare the results?
People tend to end up with "dirty" looking tanks when using the soil straight out the bag. Mineralizing not only helps converting the organics into safer non-organics but also converts the soil particles into a more humus like substance. If you've felt mineralized soil between your fingers you'll know what I mean. It's totally different than when not. In a tank you'll be waiting a long time for this to happen and by then you may have issues of different types that can be avoided.

I have a tank with mineralized soil and a tank with unmineralized soil. The tank with unmineralized soil killed the test Malaysian trumpets snails within the first month so it wasn't safe for any life at the start. They just refused to burrow and died over the substrate. That's with a cycled filter inside the tank and plants that were growing extremely fast due to the break down of organics. So if you care about your creaters, one needs to be careful. And this tank has always been prone to green algae on the glass and protein film on the surface. Other than that it has been great.

The mineralized tank has never had any algae of any sort believe it or not. I've never needed to clean the glass and water is pristine clear, as if it is filtered with carbon or seachem purigen. It's only an anecdotal experience and it's only based on two tanks but I'd hate to deal with unmineralized soil in a larger tank if all of them lead to the issues I've had when not mineralizing. If issues can be avoided, I'd avoid it even if it means a bit of prior work.
 
Each to their own SF...either way is fine.
I don't always use mesh, and I haven't experience any of the problems you've encountered. I suppose every tank is different tho'.
Sorry for hijacking your thread Pinkmummy...How's it going, any updates?
 
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sciencefiction said:
Have you done any journals to those tanks Troi? It's not because I want to prove a point to someone. I want to see how are the tanks with unmineralized soil progressing for others. I'd love to save myself the trouble of mineralizing soil too, just not too convinced so far by what I am seeing.
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Really...:shifty:😛
😉Sure, first link is to my attempt returning to the hobby after about 25 years (no mesh), and as a complete newbie to forums - so it's a bit embarrassing in places...
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/low-tech-aquarium-update.18527/
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/emerald-forest-a-low-energy-scape-in-progress.19761/page-2 (sorry pics have gone A-wall)
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/high-energy-soil-substrate-layout-updated.22651/
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cryptic-haven-low-energy-update-pics.28695/ (most recent and still going)
And this no journal tho' just a photo...
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l313/intelthug/hybid energy planted tank/fts-1.jpg
 
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Thanks SF that's very kind of you to say so.

But on the subject of my additives...would a rose by any other name smell as sweet...Soil is soil...is soil....🙄

All soils are composed of the same basic materials - a mixture of mineral matter (clay, sand, silt), organic matter (living plants and animals and dead remains), and air and water...oh and microorganisms. The proportions of the first 4 principle ingredients vary greatly from one soil type to another.

For instance, the soils I use, that you referred to - peat is a soil high in organic matter, loam is a soil mostly composed of sand and silt and a smaller amount of clay and organic material.

These four principle soil constituents intermix and give rise to a number of important properties for us plant growers, aquatic or otherwise, including texture, structure and fertility.

All I'm doing is adding additional peat soil to a ready made soil mix (planting compost or aquatic compost) to get a soil with a higher organic content, which has many synergistic benefits some of which Darren has mentioned above. But the main benefit for me is the evolution of CO2 as the organic matter decomposes (mineralizes). My tutorial goes in to more detail though.

P.S the pics above are from the second journal...
 
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I used plain aquatic compost once, horrible results in a low tech for me. I didn't mix it with anything, just capped it with sand from the same brand and I used quite a tick layer of soil at the bottom compared to what I use now. The combo killed several of my fish within 2 months, caused a disease outbreak, and plants were dying within 2-3 days. I couldn't figure out what was happening because I was doing 50% water changes daily but when I removed all the substrate, it stunk of hydrogen sulphide so I presume it went anaerobic. That was a 6 month battle in the end before I binned it.
I moved all those fish to a mineralized garden topsoil tank and they recovered since.
My small tank was setup with un-mineralized soil but I put less than an inch of it and it has less than an inch sand cap so I didn't have those long lasting problems.

Some garden products are no good not mineralized though, such as miracle gro for example.
 
Sounds like a nightmare. H2S is the pervading smell from many an aquatic sediment - which incidentally is anaerobic by nature - but it rarely proves toxic to aquatic plants (which have evolved to grow in it) or especially critters since H2S quickly oxidised to harmless sulphates in the presence of oxygen.

It's true some garden products don't work very well as aquatic sediments...in the above case perhaps it contained additives that poisoned your tank, and killed your plants and fish. In many cases it is the least toxic soil which provides the best growing conditions. But as I mentioned it's all in the tutorial...
 
The product I used was JBL aqua soil, so shouldn't have been toxic. It was capped with JBL sansibar black. One or the other, or both combined didn't agree with either plants or fish. The tank and filters had been running for years prior to that.
If you ask me, I used too tick layer of soil, the sand was too fine acting as a concrete wall, and the soil was killing the plants within days so they couldn't even spread roots to ease the problem.
 
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