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Lily pipes - how do they work?
- Thread starter foxfish
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A
Antipofish
Guest
foxfish said:
I can't explain the fluid dynamics behind this but it definitely works. Google "youtube lily pipe" or "youtube lily pipe vortex" and you will see some examples. It must be something to do with the circular nature of the "funnel" that creates a virtual vacuum due to the velocity of the water leaving it. This in turn seems to drag surface water with it by means of a mini tornado almost. Its quite interesting to see in operation. Sorry I can't say any more...I will be interested to see future replies..
Err...yeah, they create a £40 vortex that sucks the money right out of your wallet. 
The Matrix isn't real foxfish!
Cheers,
The Matrix isn't real foxfish!
Cheers,
A
Antipofish
Guest
ceg4048 said:Err...yeah, they create a £40 vortex that sucks the money right out of your wallet.
The Matrix isn't real foxfish!
Cheers,
Lol Clive, you been buying cheap stuff again !!! £40 ? Not talking ADA stuff then, haha. I take it you are not a fan ? I am crestfallen to hear about the Matrix though 🙁 Next thing, you will be telling us all the Easter Bunny is just someone done up in fancy dress !!!
ghostsword
Member
The glassware is very pretty, but get's dirty quickly. I have a eheim easy set (grey) and does the job perfectly. 🙂 If I want a vortex I can use a koralia a couple of cm's under the water.
After all there isn't a vortex in nature.
The acrylic pipes are a good idea, clear and resistent.
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After all there isn't a vortex in nature.
The acrylic pipes are a good idea, clear and resistent.
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sussex_cichlids
Member
ghostsword said:
In sure the shape of the Lille pipe will effect the flow and create a vortex because of the shape of the outlet it doesn't create a vortex as such but it dose induces two pressures zones an area of low presure and high pressure on the flow of water as it released from the mouth of the pipe the area of low pressure will allow the high presure to pass round it in turn creating the vortex
Similar to how a tornado is born
It forms when a high hot humid air meets driving north meets cold dry air moving south when the too meet they create a vortex due to the diffrences in pressure and humidaty
I know there big diffrance before anyone says im wrong look at the shape of the outlet then take in to count some basic physics and think about the flow and how it affected by the water around it
I maybe proven wrong tho
A
Antipofish
Guest
ghostsword said:
To be fair Luis, there isn't a "closed system" in nature either though, to concentrate and hold in anything that creates scum or biofilm such as some people get in their aquaria. The volumes of natural water columns, in general, is massive.
In defence of the lily pipe, ANY pipe system on our tanks gets dirty, its just that the clear glass shows it a lot more. But that is the price we pay for vanity, and ours is a very vain hobby on the whole (in a good way, since we all strive for that 'perfect scape' 🙂
I too like the idea of acrylic lily pipes. I am surprised they are not yet mass marketed.
ghostsword
Member
But who says that there isn't scum or biofilm in nature? I've seen it many times in rivers and affluents, you see it when there is an imbalance on the water quality.
I don't think that it is economically viable to get lilly pipes to get it fixed, or the vuppa. I like the look of the lilly pipes an would buy them for that reason alone, not for water pressures, biofilm on top or such things.
I remember in the 80's I had a 200l tank with angels and guppies, cory's and vallis and echinodorus. It had a swimmer and a treasure chest with bubbles. The filter was an air powered hang on an it also had a undergravel filter. I was 11 but do not remember seeing any biofilm and scum on the top.
Was I lucky? Maybe, but then I've been lucky for almost 30 years. 🙂 and no, it's not because I knew what to do, because until I joined UKAPS I did not know what was ferts or co2 for tanks. 😀
Lilly pipes are very pretty, look good and clean, will get some for that reason alone, but I am not sold on their miraculous habilities.
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I don't think that it is economically viable to get lilly pipes to get it fixed, or the vuppa. I like the look of the lilly pipes an would buy them for that reason alone, not for water pressures, biofilm on top or such things.
I remember in the 80's I had a 200l tank with angels and guppies, cory's and vallis and echinodorus. It had a swimmer and a treasure chest with bubbles. The filter was an air powered hang on an it also had a undergravel filter. I was 11 but do not remember seeing any biofilm and scum on the top.
Was I lucky? Maybe, but then I've been lucky for almost 30 years. 🙂 and no, it's not because I knew what to do, because until I joined UKAPS I did not know what was ferts or co2 for tanks. 😀
Lilly pipes are very pretty, look good and clean, will get some for that reason alone, but I am not sold on their miraculous habilities.
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Fluids in motion have a lower pressure than fluids at rest. So the water exiting the mouth of the funnel lowers the pressure just below the water's surface and therefore induces motion from the surface. This is nothing special and this vortex concept is brandished about by marketing departments as if it were something revolutionary. the same ting happens when you pull the plug in you sink or bathtub or when you flush your toilet. The water flowing down the drain lowers the pressure in the surrounding water column and gets the column of water moving. We see this every day and we think nothing of it. Why all of a sudden is this such an amazing phenomenon? If you drive an estate car the airflow falling off the back of the car lowers the pressure near the rear windscreen which results in sucking up dirt and debris. You can see vortices form in a stream as the water flows around rocks and other obstacles. When you are on an airplane waiting to take off, your pilot has to wait a while if a larger airplane has just taken off because the vortices coming off the wing tips at takeoff or landing speeds are strong enough to buffet your plane and cause control problems, so the pilot waits a prescribed amount of time for the vortices to dissipate and then he/she can execute the takeoff roll. Vortices are a common occurrence in nature wherever there is a fluid in motion. This is not a big deal and you should not have to pay big bucks for something that happens for free. If you like looking at vortices, then go and flush your toilet bowl more often. It has the same shape as a lily pipe. The flow is just in the opposite direction.sussex_cichlids said:
In actual fact, this vortex issue irrelevant because it does nothing to help distribute flow in the locations that you want, down at the substrate level. You just get a localizes disturbance at the surface. This does not equate to, or produce a giant vortex of the entire water column. That's only an illusion that the marketing department wants you to think. As a matter of fact the open conical shape actually slows the flow as it exits the constant pipe section. So if these devices have an advantage, it might be that they can make the exit flow less violent or less turbulent, but this has no advantage in terms of the large scale shape of the water column movement.
Cheers,
George Farmer
Founder
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I've had experience of pretty much every style of lily pipe available and they do perform very differently.
Some will agitate the surface whilst providing minimal water column circulation. Others do the opposite, and there's in-between. It's very apparent by looking at the outlet design to see how it will work on this balance between surface vs. water column movement.
Example of surface-bias
Example of water column-bias
Example of in-between
The biggest advantage of lily pipes for me is their aesthetics. I like to have no background on the aquarium in some of my aquascapes, as this provides opportunity for backlighting etc. In this situation glassware is necessary to prevent an ugly distraction on the aquascape, unless your aquascape itself can hide ugly pipework etc.
I'm not sure about the long-term aesthetics on acrylic lily pipes. Acrylic scratches very easily compared with glass and I suspect every time you cleaned the acrylic with a typical hose brush, it would become scratched quite easily and look unsightly. I'm very happy to be proven wrong though because I've broken more glass lily pipes than I care to admit to!
Some will agitate the surface whilst providing minimal water column circulation. Others do the opposite, and there's in-between. It's very apparent by looking at the outlet design to see how it will work on this balance between surface vs. water column movement.
Example of surface-bias
Example of water column-bias
Example of in-between
The biggest advantage of lily pipes for me is their aesthetics. I like to have no background on the aquarium in some of my aquascapes, as this provides opportunity for backlighting etc. In this situation glassware is necessary to prevent an ugly distraction on the aquascape, unless your aquascape itself can hide ugly pipework etc.
I'm not sure about the long-term aesthetics on acrylic lily pipes. Acrylic scratches very easily compared with glass and I suspect every time you cleaned the acrylic with a typical hose brush, it would become scratched quite easily and look unsightly. I'm very happy to be proven wrong though because I've broken more glass lily pipes than I care to admit to!
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Morgan Freeman
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- 16 Aug 2010
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- 631
The only reason I'd buy them is because they look nice.
My current tank has no algae or surface scum and it doesn't even have a filter.
My current tank has no algae or surface scum and it doesn't even have a filter.
A
Antipofish
Guest
Morgan Freeman said:
Is it empty ? LOL. Lucky you 🙂 Do you have fish in there ? I am always interested in the success some people have with filter less tanks. Good on ya 🙂
George Farmer said:
The pipe cleaning brush doesn't affect the ones I made in either tank. And if they do get worn, they're only 50p a go... Though getting a perfect Lilly is a bit of an art. If its just the aesthetics then clear pipes are really easy to do, and you can have it pointing at the exact angle that works for your tank. Custom made at home all the way (how to guide in my journal).
I like that you can make a deeper inlet too - so sucks closer to the bottom of the tank to get crud off tthe substrate better and allows you to more than 50% water change using the pump.... But that's just me.
ghostsword
Member
Yep, I am also thinking about making a clear acrylic pipe, outlet pointing down.
Ceg has me quoting defending the vortex, but no, not me. Clear pipes only for looks. 🙂
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Ceg has me quoting defending the vortex, but no, not me. Clear pipes only for looks. 🙂
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A
Antipofish
Guest
ghostsword said:
Only for looks ? Does that mean you don't perceive breaking up surface scum as a benefit ? 😛 😛
ghostsword
Member
Antipofish said:
Ive never had surface scum, so yep, just for looks. 🙂
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A
Antipofish
Guest
ghostsword said:
LOL, think the wider picture Luis.. IF you had a surface film ??? Would you still think the lily pipe just looked pretty or would you welcome the added advantage of it dispersing the film 🙂
Morgan Freeman
Member
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- 631
Antipofish said:
Ten flame tetras.
I'm surprised how well it's going! It's remarkably easy running an "El Natural" tank. I think everyone should try it.
ghostsword
Member
Antipofish said:
🙂 if I had surface film I would do my best to find the cause for it. If your house is smelling what do you think is better? Spray febreeze it or find the cause of the smell and clean it up?
I don't know why I don't have surface scum, not even on the small tanks I have with no filters and just moss. They are 500ml and get one 100% water change every two days. No ferts, no co2 just plain tap water. No algae and no scum. Both on a windowsill. 🙂
I've read on the forum that scum and biofilm are lipids and organics released by the plants, so maybe enough water changes does the trick?
Only thing I've used as a shortcut was easy carbo on my mother's tank. Was so full of hair algae that it would have been a pain to remove it. Took the fish out and dropped 250ml on a 35l tank. All algae turned to brown mush in a day, but the java ferns were left spotless. Two 100% water changes in one week were enough to clear the tank. Shortcuts do have their place but only if we know the way to get things right as well.
I like pipes, seen them enough, they are pieces of art. 🙂 but I'll buy them for that reason alone, not for the vortex, scum removal, etc.
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