Lost my pygmy corydoras after a water change

[ElleDee]

I am not convinced vacuuming the substrate is the main issue. It's not that much sand and I would think that there would be other evidence such as a bad smell, ammonia spike, or longer lasting fish weirdness. I think the culprit is the more than 10x the appropriate Prime dose. Seachem says up to 5x is ok in an emergency and we're well outside that margin of safety in this case. (Unless I'm doing my math wrong... It's early here and bad math can strike the best of us.)

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am not convinced vacuuming the substrate is the main issue.

Agreed, I think it is more likely that it is either <"emergency chloramine dosing">, or the <"overdose of Seachem Prime">.

In either case the end result is likely to be lack of dissolved oxygen, and that did the damage <"A Brief History of Prime">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Thanks @_Maq_ I certainly didn't expect that vacuuming the substrate could lead to such dire consequences.

@Calamardo Tentaculos - Although different to Maq, the principle is the same for me. I have a typical canister filter with a pre-filter that I clean weekly. The sponge/HEL-X13 media in the main filter compartment has not been cleaned for six months. I also never clean the gravel.

The good news is that we have honed in on the problem and, therefore, prevent it from happening again. Something in the mix of a) over-cleaning and b) over-dosing has caused a problem. Although we cannot be 100% sure, it does feel like this is the root cause of the unfortunate event.

Yes it does look like it.

I’d personally use sand. Corydoras ideally need sand to exhibit natural behaviour of digging and sand sifting. Gravel doesn’t allow this and I wouldn’t keep corydoras on anything other than sand, it’s not fair on the fish in my opinion.

Gravel also traps a massive amount of detritus and waste. This doesn’t happen with sand as the waste simply sits on top where it can easily be siphoned away.

I am using DOOA tropical river sand.

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Hi all,

Agreed, I think it is more likely that it is either <"emergency chloramine dosing">, or the <"overdose of Seachem Prime">.

In either case the end result is likely to be lack of dissolved oxygen, and that did the damage <"A Brief History of Prime">.
View attachment 213798
cheers Darrel

So is there anything I should be using in place of Prime?

I am not convinced vacuuming the substrate is the main issue. It's not that much sand and I would think that there would be other evidence such as a bad smell, ammonia spike, or longer lasting fish weirdness. I think the culprit is the more than 10x the appropriate Prime dose. Seachem says up to 5x is ok in an emergency and we're well outside that margin of safety in this case. (Unless I'm doing my math wrong... It's early here and bad math can strike the best of us.)

I thought it was 5x to be honest. I presume there is no need to put Prime in RO water? I will keep any water I use Prime on for 24 hours to season it and avoid any such instances in the future.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So is there anything I should be using in place of Prime?

I use rain water, so I don't use a dechlorinator personally.

I think any dechlorinator will <"reduce levels of dissolved oxygen"> and if I was forced to use tap water I would use a <"Prime type product">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Bradders]

I use API Tap Water Conditioner as it contains thiosulfate which seems to be quite good and a little more relaxed on over-dose situations. Of course, the important thing as always is to get the dosage correct. (I am so sad that I use a pippet to draw out the right amount from the bottle!)

For reference, I never leave my tap water to settle for 24 hours. I just ensure the API product is placed into the water I change during the heating process which takes around 45 minutes. That is more than enough time for it to work. I always dose for chlorine and chloramines which is the higher dose, and it’s been fine for me.

 

[John q]

So is there anything I should be using in place of Prime?

Seachem prime is fine as a dechlorinator, you just need to add 0.125ml for every 5L of tap water you use, that would be the std dose.
Even doing a 1.5~2 x dose (which is what I often do) shouldn't cause issues. ( That would be 0.1875 ~ 0.25ml)

Can I suggest you purchase a 1ml syringe, it will make life much easier.

Amazon product ASIN B009WQCERK

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
I use API Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner!
Add some aeration to the aquarium when doing water changes.

 

[ElleDee]

Seachem prime is fine as a dechlorinator, you just need to add 0.125ml for every 5L of tap water you use, that would be the std dose.
Even doing a 1.5~2 x dose (which is what I often do) shouldn't cause issues. ( That would be 0.1875 ~ 0.25ml)

Can I suggest you purchase a 1ml syringe, will make life much easier.

Amazon product ASIN B009WQCERK

Yes, this is the answer. Prime is fine, you just need to dose it correctly.

I recommend against aging water with prime. IIRC it breaks chloramine into chlorine and ammonia and binds the ammonia in a nontoxic form for 24 to 48 hours. In a cycled tank the ammonia would be processed before the bond breaks, but if it's just water sitting in a bucket it will become free ammonia, which you probably don't want to add to your tank. (Someone correct me if I'm remembering wrong, thanks.)

 

[tam]

I use prime. I dose the bucket - so do 0.25ml prime in 10l of new water (which is roughly 6l rain and 4l tap). Technically that's over what the tap portion would need by itself, but I know you can dose for the tank volumn so it's well under the standard dose once diluted in the tank (mines a 70l tank). I dose the bucket so the water is ready, then drain the old water/do the maintainance, then refill - prime works fairly instantly but that gives it half an hour. I give the bucket a good swirl after I put it in too.

The dose rate on the bottle is 5ml per 200l, so 0.5 per 20l... 0.25 per 10l.
1.5ml per 10l would be 6x the standard dose. The more water you are changing the less it gets diluted in the tank too.

I think dosing at the standard dose .25ml per 10l new water, and running an airline if you want to be extra cautious, would rule that out of being on the potential cause list in future.

 

[erwin123]

Hi
I use API Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner!
Add some aeration to the aquarium when doing water changes.

On some of the Purigen® documentation I have read it says that some slime coat products can contaminate Purigen® and render it toxic. Can you identify these products?
A: Only certain slime coat products will cause Purigen® to become toxic; the products that do this are amine based. Prime® and Safe™ are not amine based and so will not cause this problem. If you're curious, what happens is that the amine compounds can strongly bind to the resin, then when they (the amines) come into contact with any chlorine they will form chloramines which are highly toxic. We offer a stress coat product, StressGuard, which is not amine based and so can be used in conjunction with Purigen®.

Do you know whether API Stress coat contains animes? Just in case as Seachem Purigen is pretty popular with users (I confess I have a bag of purigen in my filter....)

 

[G H Nelson]

Do you know whether API Stress coat contains animes? Just in case as Seachem Purigen is pretty popular with users (I confess I have a bag of purigen in my filter....)

Sorry I can't find any information regarding animes!

Sorry I can't find any information regarding animes!

@John q No idea myself but @Wookii was under the impression that api stresscoat is amine based.

Post in thread 'Fluval water conditioner used alongside Seachem Purigen' Fluval water conditioner used alongside Seachem Purigen

@GHNelson This is the quote from Seachem!
Seachem Tech support confirm that it isn't an issue unless you specifically use an amine based product to dechlorinate during the recharge process.

 

[fredi]

I use prime. I dose the bucket - so do 0.25ml prime in 10l of new water (which is roughly 6l rain and 4l tap). Technically that's over what the tap portion would need by itself, but I know you can dose for the tank volumn so it's well under the standard dose once diluted in the tank (mines a 70l tank). I dose the bucket so the water is ready, then drain the old water/do the maintainance, then refill - prime works fairly instantly but that gives it half an hour. I give the bucket a good swirl after I put it in too.

The dose rate on the bottle is 5ml per 200l, so 0.5 per 20l... 0.25 per 10l.
1.5ml per 10l would be 6x the standard dose. The more water you are changing the less it gets diluted in the tank too.

I think dosing at the standard dose .25ml per 10l new water, and running an airline if you want to be extra cautious, would rule that out of being on the potential cause list in future.

I do have prime, for emergencies, it has (imho) saved whole tanks of fish, in the past (following equipment failure)
For chlorine removal I use Chlor-go (for ponds), I dose 1ml per 20ltrs, been using it for years, it’s cheap (compared to products deemed to be for aquariums), and (as far as I am aware) has never let me down

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

I use prime. I dose the bucket - so do 0.25ml prime in 10l of new water (which is roughly 6l rain and 4l tap). Technically that's over what the tap portion would need by itself, but I know you can dose for the tank volumn so it's well under the standard dose once diluted in the tank (mines a 70l tank). I dose the bucket so the water is ready, then drain the old water/do the maintainance, then refill - prime works fairly instantly but that gives it half an hour. I give the bucket a good swirl after I put it in too.

The dose rate on the bottle is 5ml per 200l, so 0.5 per 20l... 0.25 per 10l.
1.5ml per 10l would be 6x the standard dose. The more water you are changing the less it gets diluted in the tank too.

I think dosing at the standard dose .25ml per 10l new water, and running an airline if you want to be extra cautious, would rule that out of being on the potential cause list in future.

So I will aim to be as accurate as possible when doing a water change in the future.