Low tech dirted Dennerle 30l cube

[AlStu]

Hi all! I’ve been on-and-off lurking in this forum for years and decided that, with this new tank, it was time to take the plunge and document it in a journal.

I’m setting up a Dennerle 30l cube that’s been sat in my garden for about a year after a break from the hobby. Plan is for a low tech heavily planted dirted tank full of microfauna that will eventually house some Indostomus spp. which are (imo) some of the coolest fish in the world.

(Pic from a previous ill-fated attempt due to using uncapped soil and not giving the tank enough time to mature before getting the fish. Not going to make that mistake again!)

I started with some redmoor that (after many attempts and much more superglue on my fingers than I would’ve liked) I glued together with some superglue and coco fibre I had lying around.

(This pic is actually pre-gluing but I forgot to take a photo of just the wood in the tank)

Came up with a vague plan of action

And bought lots of plants off eBay (slightly disappointed with the plant to cost ratio when they arrived, but this is nothing if not an expensive hobby…).

(Plants in a bucket: Hygrophilia pinnatifida, Cryptocoryne nevelli, Vallisneria spiralis ’leopard’, Hygrophila corymbosa, Nymphea Red Tiger Lotus, red root floater and dwarf water lettuce)

Soil just arrived, but I have work I really need to get on with so will update when planted!

 

[Jorge O'Reilly]

Man, those Indostomus are AMAZING. I don't think I'd ever take the plunge, the live food issue is really a challenge.

 

[AlStu]

Man, those Indostomus are AMAZING. I don't think I'd ever take the plunge, the live food issue is really a challenge.

They are gorgeous! Part of the reason I’m going low tech with this one is that I want to try and get a fairly self-sustaining microfauna colony in the tank - which is helped by the fact Indostomus’ mouths are too small to eat the adults of most species!

 

[AlStu]

Added Levington’s organic top soil where there will be plants.

Capped with some black sand from an old tank (plus some chola wood I’m hoping will be used as natural spawning caves).

Planted and filling up! The plants are all very curly from living in the bucket for a day, but I’m hoping they’ll straighten up soon.

 

[AlStu]

Tank is filled, complete with bubbles, floating plants, emergent plants (Maranta lemon lime and Syngonium milk confetti) and botanicals (beech leaves and alder cones, still floating slightly despite been boiled to within an inch of their lives). Currently looking a little bit straggly but I’m hoping it’ll grow in ok - might tear up the beech leaves some more so they’re more to scale with the tank.

Light is a cheapy houseplant bulb and fixture on for 8h with a 3.5h ‘siesta’ in the middle. Plan is to go nearly no flow, as it’s only a small tank and I don’t want microfauna being sucked into the pump, which has happened previously, so I’m going to try just running it during the siesta at first. Not sure if this’ll work, but I’m looking forward to giving it a go!

 

[AlStu]

A few changes since yesterday - first is that I’ve pulled out the H. pinnatifida. I figured that I do not have a high enough tech tank to successfully convert it from emmersed growth and don’t want to deal with it gradually dying on me… so! I’ve added it to my high humidity houseplant vase and we’ll see how it grows there!

So onto the tank itself - after pulling out the pinnatifida I moved over the H. corymbosa to bring it closer to the wood, leaving a big old gap so, as is often the way in this hobby, I popped down to my LFS to buy a couple more plants. Selection was pretty good and plants fairly healthy so I came home with a Ludwigia palustris super red and a Hygrophila lancea. While planting, I did a 10l water change and fiddled with the substrate level slightly so the leaf litter looks a little more natural. Pretty happy with the results!

(Front view of the tank)

(View from the corner)

(What I can see from my bed!)

I also added the seachem ammonia and pH alerts - I know people here are very sceptical of them, but I found both for £9 so I thought I’d pop them in out of curiosity.

(Ammonia alert reading
On the note of water chemistry, here is my tap water. As you can see, very hard (although less so than the Cambridge water I grew up with) and sometimes (but not normally) worryingly salty.

(Anglian Water water quality report)

This is fine for me, Indostomus are alright with hard water and I’m not too fussed about growing the more sensitive plants!

 

[AlStu]

Water has cleared after a 50% water change yesterday and added populations of Daphnia moina and seed shrimp seem happy.

Pre-water change water tested as:
NH3: didn’t colour up but looked NO2: ~6ppm
NO3: ~60ppm
pH: 7.4
KH: 17
GH: 24

A little disappointed the plants aren’t sucking up more of the nutrients, but it’s early days! Also interested that my year old seachem stability and NiteOut II seem to be doing something! I have stopped dosing in the hoped the plants can suck up the ammonia before it gets converted, but we’ll see how well this works.

Plan is to let the plants convert and grow in a bit more before trimming them to increase the density. Hoping to get emergent growth on the corymbosa and maybe pallustris and will probably eventually end up taking out the Vallis out when you can’t really see it anymore.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Added Levington’s organic top soil where there will be plants

This might be ammonia rich? What does it say on the bag? the SDS is particularly unhelpful <"https://www.kelways.co.uk/files/pdf/pdf46909.pdf">. I'll be honest it isn't a product I'd use.

NH3: didn’t colour up but looked NO2: ~6ppm
NO3: ~60ppm

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure that is an issue with the test kit. It is very unlikely that you have 6 mg / L (ppm) nitrite (NO2-) <"Massive spike of nitrite and nitrate">. If you do have a lot of fixed nitrogen, you will just need to leave the tank for longer to stabilise.

.......... you need to reduce the nitrate (NO3-) ions to nitrite (NO2-) and then use those nitrite ions to create a compound that is both insoluble and coloured.

Traditionally cadmium (Cd) reduction was used as the first step (1 NO3- > 1 NO2-), but we can't use cadmium anymore, so it is now usually vanadium III as <"the reducing agent">. Once you have nitrite (NO2-) formed you need another reaction to form a coloured compound, and there are <"two main options for this">.

Because the nitrate (NO3-) measurement <"is also a nitrite measurement"> it is pretty unlikely that you have 60 ppm NO3- either - <"Who needs a tank for a dark start…. Let’s see.">.

cheers Darrel

 

[AlStu]

Darrel! Great to have you on this journal, I am always in awe of your expertise!

This might be ammonia rich? What does it say on the bag? the SDS is particularly unhelpful /www.kelways.co.uk/files/pdf/pdf46909.pdf[/URL]">. I'll be honest it isn't a product I'd use.

Bag is similarly unhelpful but as far as I can tell it has very few additives. I am not too worried - as I said I have to wait a fair while before I can get the fish anyway to let the microfauna population mature (and my out of tank backup colonies as well) so I’m happy to wait and see what happens. At worst I have to pull everything out and start again, which given part of the reason I set this up is to have a distraction from the last few months of my PhD, is again not too big of an issue!

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure that is an issue with the test kit. It is very unlikely that you have 6 mg / L (ppm) nitrite (NO2-) /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/massive-spike-of-nitrite-and-nitrate.69090/#post-688356"]Massive spike of nitrite and nitrate[/URL]">. If you do have a lot of fixed nitrogen, you will just need to leave the tank for longer to stabilise.

Because the nitrate (NO3-) measurement /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/few-problems-with-my-little-slice-of-nature.61970/page-2#post-611314']is also a nitrite measurement[/URL]"> it is pretty unlikely that you have 60 ppm NO3- either

I agree that the params seem pretty unlikely, however I did test my tap water and that gave zero readings for both nitrite and nitrate so I’m confident there is a non-zero amount, even if not that high. Again, as no fish for a long while I’m not too fussed, happy to watch and wait and start again if needed! Interesting that the daphnia seem to be merrily pootling about with their lives, though, will be watching them closely to see if this carries on.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

Alice

 

[AlStu]

I realise I sound much too sure of myself in that post - happy to be corrected on anything I’ve said!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I set this up is to have a distraction from the last few months of my PhD,

I can see you might need a distraction and I really wish you the best of luck, <"I never finished mine">, and I'll be honest, to some extent, I still <"feel bitter"> about it.

I agree that the params seem pretty unlikely, however I did test my tap water and that gave zero readings for both nitrite and nitrate

I wouldn't expect any nitrite (NO2-), but <"your water report"> gives a minimum value of ~17 mg / L (ppm) NO3, so I still think that it is likely to be the test kit.

Part of the genesis for both <"Estimative and Duckweed Indices"> (developed entirely independently) was the difficulties in testing for nitrate.

Again, as no fish for a long while I’m not too fussed, happy to watch and wait and start again if needed!

Basically yes, <"good things come to those who wait">. I'm a great believer in <"plants and time"> being the answer.

Interesting that the daphnia seem to be merrily pootling about with their lives, though, will be watching them closely to see if this carries on.

This is <"actually a bioassay">, and because Daphnia magna and D. pulex are widely <"used as bioassay organisms"> we know quite a lot about their response to environmental pollutants (and <"caffeine">), including elevated levels of TAN ammonia (NH3 / NH4+) and nitrite (NO2-).

<"Daphnia magna filtration, swimming and mortality under ammonium, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate"> & <"Making the Most of the Daphnia Heart Rate Lab: Optimizing the Use of Ethanol, Nicotine & Caffeine">.

cheers Darrel

 

[AlStu]

I can see you might need a distraction and I really wish you the best of luck, /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/food-advice-for-red-cherries.24028/#post-247118']I never finished mine[/URL]"&gt;, and I'll be honest, to some extent, I still /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/songs-from-the-man-cave.41818/page-22#post-568450']feel bitter[/URL]"&gt; about it.

It’s going ok, but I’m definitely at the point of needing healthy distractions! I am lucky to be part of a doctoral training partnership so my funding isn’t results based, although I am also lucky that my research so far has been fairly ‘successful’ in terms of finding interesting things (through no fault of my own ). I can very much understand why you might be bitter!

This is /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/is-it-possible.73929/page-3#post-746918']actually a bioassay[/URL]"&gt;, and because Daphnia magna and D. pulex are widely /www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/wildlife-research-landscape-science/biological-test-method-publications/acute-lethality-test-daphnia-species.html']used as bioassay organisms[/URL]"&gt; we know quite a lot about their response to environmental pollutants (and /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-decade-new-decadence.59339/page-31#post-666322']caffeine[/URL]"&gt, including elevated levels of TAN ammonia (NH3 / NH4+) and nitrite (NO2-).

I]Daphnia magna filtration, swimming and mortality under ammonium, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate"&gt; & /online.ucpress.edu/abt/article-abstract/72/3/176/18148/Making-the-Most-of-the-Daphnia-Heart-Rate-Lab']Making the Most of the Daphnia Heart Rate Lab: Optimizing the Use of Ethanol, Nicotine & Caffeine[/URL]"&gt;.

From this, it looks like daphnia are active up to very high ammonium concentrations and lower (although still lethal to fish?) nitrite concentrations. Is it worth getting another test kit and trying my luck with that, or would you say that with enough time and if the plants are actively growing the ammonia(/um) and nitrite levels should be reasonable even if the test kit is still reading high concentrations?

Thank you!
Alice

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Is it worth getting another test kit and trying my luck with that,

If you had access to an <"ion selective electrode">, that would help.

or would you say that with enough time and if the plants are actively growing the ammonia(/um) and nitrite levels should be reasonable even if the test kit is still reading high concentrations?

Yes, I would <"put my trust"> in time and plant growth.

cheers Darrel

 

[AlStu]

In a classic case of fairly harmless retail therapy over the weekend (I have some very stressful meetings this week!) the tank has had a couple of additions today.

(Riccia, more water lettuce, a red root floater, and around five each of bladder snails, Malaysian trumpet snailsand ramshorn snails courtesy of Dan/tinyfishes567 on eBay; and some more H. corymbosa from floratica, also on eBay)

This has resulted in an absolute forest of H. corymbosa (too much…? Will probably end up taking a bunch out in future but I like it for now) which I hope will end up with plenty of emergent growth, which I’ve enjoyed in previous tanks. It took some fiddling to stop it from shading out the other plants, but I think I’ve managed.

But the tank is looking very pretty (imo) from above. Red root floaters are growing quickly and very green showing the high nitrogen availability.

And the Daphnia, seed shrimp, and new snails continue to happily go about their lives, even with the pump coming on for three one hour periods a day, which is good!

 

[malik uddin]

Tank is looking good, just keep up water changes. My tank is now 5 weeks and my stems have needed in and growing in a week. After 3 weeks I passed the wood fungus stage. The plants you have will suck up the nitrates, but need to bed in first for a few weeks. Don't be afraid to trim dark or damaged tips of plants as this will encourage new growth. I had a few plants with rotten tips and were not growing, but after I trimmed these the started shooting up.

 

[richardcunliffe]

I have the same tank sitting in the garage just waiting. Definitely want to try the dirted tank with microfauna thing sometime. Will follow with interest.
It's looking great from the top!

 

[si walker]

I have the same tank sitting in the garage just waiting. Definitely want to try the dirted tank with microfauna thing sometime. Will follow with interest.
It's looking great from the top!

Me too! I'm going to dust her off this evening.

 

[AlStu]

I have the same tank sitting in the garage just waiting. Definitely want to try the dirted tank with microfauna thing sometime. Will follow with interest.
It's looking great from the top!

They’re gorgeous tanks! Very well made and tidy, although I do find the lid a bit tight when cables are coming out.

And thank you! Hoping for the sides to look just as good once the plants grow in there are other microfauna I would add if I weren’t doing the Indostomus - e.g. scuds and some small Neocaradina shrimp - but as it is even the snails might cause problems to eggs as they’re so tiny.

 

[AlStu]

Me too! I'm going to dust her off this evening.

Looking forward to see what you do with it!

 

[AlStu]

A week in and touch wood no algae yet. Biofilm on the wood seems to have mainly come and gone, with only a little remaining and there was a thin layer of something (maybe diatoms, maybe something else) on the glass that I easily wiped off with my fingers. Only real change is I’ve added some java moss to the chola wood (and a little on the roots as well) as an extra place for small beasties to hide.

And there has been significant growth from the floaters, particularly the water lettuce!

Plus a week in full tank shot for posterity!

Alice.