Ghost12321
New Member
Low tech planted tank i can't decide what media to get for my fluval 307 currently got a mix of random ceramic that I've had for over 6+ years
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Media help
- Thread starter Ghost12321
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_Maq_
Member
There are no miraculous filtration media, in spite of what manufacturers claim. Go the cheapest way. Ceramics, sponges, plastic toys ... hardly make any difference.
Ghost12321
New Member
I've seen people using pot scrubbers but I feel conflicted to use them don't wanna make my fish ill
You’ll only make them ill if you’ve used them to do the washing up first. Seriously, they are a perfectly adequate and safe alternative to Gucci media.
Bradders
Member
Yep, agree with this. Foam will do you, as will pot scrubbers. They have a high surface area and work nicely.
OllieTY
Member
I'd definitely be using whatever media I ALREADY HAVE rather than buying anything new!
Bradders
Member
Why do you think that it does not make any difference? i.e. we know that the surface area of foam is much higher than gravel, so I would not recommend using gravel as a filter media in the Fluval 307. I am interested to hear your views.
This is an interesting thread on the subject
Best Filter Media
Hi all, Seachem does not deny it's pumice but then go about justifying it all with a well crafted sales pitch. You have to admire , but it is exactly that, a well crafted sales pitch. All are very similar, for geological reasons. It seems fairly straight forward that the more surface area...
www.ukaps.org
Ghost12321
New Member
So if you was me what media would you get for my fluval 307
Can confirm. Just purchased and gave me the placebo feeling I wanted. What’s the point of a hobby if I can’t shop 🤣
(I went the full ADA route for everything. I know it’s snake oil but would still do it again)
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Bradders
Member
Thanks @Tim Harrison. Yes, I have had a read of that thread. It is interesting. And I agree relatively inexpensive media (pot scrubbers, foam) is perfectly fine (assuming correct application).I also agree that you only need relatively small amounts of filter media to turn ammonia into nitrate, And oxygen is very important.
However, when you add a lot of fish into the balance with not so many plants (like my tank, I am trying to improve with plants!), I would offer you need more than just adequate nitrification. Moreover, enough media to produce as much beneficial bacteria as possible to remove from the water column and process within your filter. If you take that approach, having high surface area media is a sensible way. It also acts as a very good safety margin by having more than you need - or if you want to add more fish later. You don't have to go nuts, but why not over-filter a little?
However, when you add a lot of fish into the balance with not so many plants (like my tank, I am trying to improve with plants!), I would offer you need more than just adequate nitrification. Moreover, enough media to produce as much beneficial bacteria as possible to remove from the water column and process within your filter. If you take that approach, having high surface area media is a sensible way. It also acts as a very good safety margin by having more than you need - or if you want to add more fish later. You don't have to go nuts, but why not over-filter a little?
Bradders
Member
I think you are going to get very different views!
I would say foams if you intend to keep plants AND moderate amounts of fish - but others may say something different.
Ghost12321
New Member
I'm stuck between getting lava rock or those pot scrubbers
Bradders
Member
Then, personally, in my opinion only, I would go for the pot scrubbers, especially if you want to keep a reasonable amount of fish.
_Maq_
Member
It's good to differentiate between heterotrophic (decomposing) microbes and nitrifying (autotrophic) microbes.
a) For heterotrophs, the ideal colonization area is the "food" (correctly: substrate) itself. If you want to eat a cow, you must go where the cow is. Conversely, the most beautiful colonization area where no cows are present will not feed you a bit. That is why in water processing plants there is no colonization area for decomposition, only activated sludge (particulate "dirt") and oxygenation.
b) Nitrifying microbes have quite different demands. First of all, they seek areas which are not colonized by heterotrophs. The reason is that they cannot stand the competition. Their metabolism is less energetically effective, therefore they proliferate relatively slowly. Therefore, it's a nonsense to believe that a "matured" filter with dirty media is best for nitrification; quite the opposite.
In case of nitrifiers, they prefer sedentary existence with the protection of a biofilm. But they do not settle on organic matter - that's the zone where heterotrophs gain their "food" and dominate. No chance for nitrifiers, and also no interest - autotrophs are oblivious to organic matter. Nitrifiers seek interfaces which are not attractive for heterotrophs. Plastic toys like Kaldnes are perhaps the best known ones. They are designed not to adsorb organic matter, i.e. to remain free of "dirt" and heterotrophs. Nitrifiers need CO2 or bicarbonates as a source of carbon and ammonia/um as a source of energy. All the other elements they acquire in soluble form while they pass through their biofilms.
In water processing plants, nitrification is performed separately, as a second step only after overwhelming part of heterotrophic decomposition is finished. This is because the nitrifiers poorly compete in heterotrophs' competition. Such a water looks much clearer and plastic toys are in use as a colonization area.
The funny thing is that I've discovered that any filter makes no difference. Yes, filters are a must in fisheries where there is an enormous density of fish. Even aquarium fish breeders keeping their juveniles in hollow tanks for easy maintenance definitely need filters. But in planted tanks with moderate fish stock external filters are redundant. It's just a myth. You can clearly see the interest of manufacturers to persuade you that there's no way without nice expensive filters full of miraculous media.
Just keep the water flowing and the substrate will take care of the rest. If you don't believe, you won't know unless you try yourself.
a) For heterotrophs, the ideal colonization area is the "food" (correctly: substrate) itself. If you want to eat a cow, you must go where the cow is. Conversely, the most beautiful colonization area where no cows are present will not feed you a bit. That is why in water processing plants there is no colonization area for decomposition, only activated sludge (particulate "dirt") and oxygenation.
b) Nitrifying microbes have quite different demands. First of all, they seek areas which are not colonized by heterotrophs. The reason is that they cannot stand the competition. Their metabolism is less energetically effective, therefore they proliferate relatively slowly. Therefore, it's a nonsense to believe that a "matured" filter with dirty media is best for nitrification; quite the opposite.
In case of nitrifiers, they prefer sedentary existence with the protection of a biofilm. But they do not settle on organic matter - that's the zone where heterotrophs gain their "food" and dominate. No chance for nitrifiers, and also no interest - autotrophs are oblivious to organic matter. Nitrifiers seek interfaces which are not attractive for heterotrophs. Plastic toys like Kaldnes are perhaps the best known ones. They are designed not to adsorb organic matter, i.e. to remain free of "dirt" and heterotrophs. Nitrifiers need CO2 or bicarbonates as a source of carbon and ammonia/um as a source of energy. All the other elements they acquire in soluble form while they pass through their biofilms.
In water processing plants, nitrification is performed separately, as a second step only after overwhelming part of heterotrophic decomposition is finished. This is because the nitrifiers poorly compete in heterotrophs' competition. Such a water looks much clearer and plastic toys are in use as a colonization area.
The funny thing is that I've discovered that any filter makes no difference. Yes, filters are a must in fisheries where there is an enormous density of fish. Even aquarium fish breeders keeping their juveniles in hollow tanks for easy maintenance definitely need filters. But in planted tanks with moderate fish stock external filters are redundant. It's just a myth. You can clearly see the interest of manufacturers to persuade you that there's no way without nice expensive filters full of miraculous media.
Just keep the water flowing and the substrate will take care of the rest. If you don't believe, you won't know unless you try yourself.
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Bradders
Member
Yeah, I still can't get my head around the filter being redundant!The funny thing is that I've discovered that any filter makes no difference. Yes, filters are a must in fisheries where there is an enormous density of fish. Even aquarium fish breeders keeping their juveniles in hollow tanks for easy maintenance definitely need filters. But in planted tanks with moderate fish stock external filters are redundant. It's just a myth. You can clearly see the interest of manufacturers to persuade you that there's no way without nice expensive filters full of miraculous media.
Just keep the water flowing and the substrate will take care of the rest. If you don't believe, you won't know unless you try yourself.
Maybe in a heavily planted (i.e. carpeted) aquarium, but in mine, I think it would be a disaster to turn off the filters. (i.e. A couple of plants and 18 fish). Autotrophic removed chemicals, and Heterotrophic removes bacteria and pathogens right?
_Maq_
Member
Heterotrophic microbes remove (dead) organic matter and, ideally, decompose it into mineral (inorganic) substances.
Heterotrophs are like us, people. We eat organic matter, like bread. Sometimes we kill (not pathogens but) animals for meat, also an organic matter. We also "decompose" organic matter into simpler substances, but our feces still need a lot of work by insects, worms, and finally bacteria to turn it into inorganic substances.
Autotrophs are organisms which do not need to "eat" other organisms, dead or alive. The best known among them are plants. They uptake mineral substances and CO2 as a source of carbon. They gain energy from light which enables photosynthesis - a transformation of CO2 and water into sugars - basic organic substances. These are subsequently transformed into more complex ones.
But light is not the only source of energy for autotrophs. Many can utilize chemical energy. They perform certain reactions, like oxidation of ammonia, and gain energy from that.
An important point is that ammonia is an inorganic substance but regularly appears as an end-product of decomposition of organic matter. In this case, heterotrophs come first, "eating" nitrogen-containing organic substances (mostly proteins), and turning part of it into ammonia. After that, nitrifying microbes may or may not take over and oxidize ammonia to nitrates with the effect of gaining energy. Yet in planted tanks, much of ammonia is directly consumed by plants (which generally prefer ammonia to nitrates, a bit).
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Bradders
Member
As always, thanks! A great write-up @_Maq_ !
So, if we tie this all back into not needing a filter (i.e. due to a very highly and healthy planted aquarium), then all the biofiltration is performed in the actual aquarium (water column, substrate, plants) and not in a filter. This will include Heterotrophic and also Autotrophic bacteria. Have I got that about right?
MichaelJ
Member
@_Maq_ you need to write these things up in a way (layman's terms) that makes it succinct to the way it relates to our glass boxes - similar to what you did in the past. I am with you on the importance of the microbial community in our substrate - it's really what makes an aquarium tick! - much more than anything else.
Yeah, I still can't get my head around the filter being redundant!
Think about your substrate and plant mass as a superior biological filter, then compare the mass of your substrate vs the mass of your filtration system. Your filtration system, unless you have a large sump, will only have a minuscule impact on biological filtration.
Mechanical filtration for nutrient distribution and oxygenation is crucial for sure. But thats pretty much it.
Cheers,
Michael
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