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Journal Mission Bathtub 2018

Really sorry to hear about your goldfish Marcel, that is rotten luck. I knew how much they meant to you, especially the large female.
 
Tim Harrison said:
Really sorry to hear about your goldfish Marcel, that is rotten luck. I knew how much they meant to you, especially the large female.
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Yes Tim.. Big Mama was very close to my heart.. I had a special bond with here. She always came to me and didn't mind to be stroked. :( But it seems more survived than i could hope for.. I'm just sitting next to it and watch. Very slowly i see them come out of hiding and test the invironments safety.. Threw in a little food to see if this smell triggers some more action. And it did, they are not taking the food, but some are nervously darting and flashing close to the substrate from cave to cave.. I'm trying to peek in from different angles and it seems the big white girl survived, i see a big white tail tip wiglling in one of the bigger caves. That must be her.. :). There is more room at the tubs square end i can not look in. So i have no idea what's still hiding in there. I might be in for a surprise.

But for now the happy times of feeling safe and playing around are over.. That's the first time i have observed this.. Never seen them this afraid and startled before.

As talked about in several different topics, emotions in fish!? This is a rather confronting experience again. Still can only theorize about it what they experience and what went on last night.. But it must have been something horribly shocking enough for a rather big fish to hide in a small cave2 times here size with till i counted 4 others cramped in as well for hours and not showing. They definitively have a sense of safety and memory of something horrible about to happen if you come out of hidding. As said the first look this morning i thought all where gone..

I wonder how long it will take them to trust their world again.
 
What a relief, Big Mama survived, that is great news.
zozo said:
As talked about in several different topics, emotions in fish!?
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The tub looks desolate now; after watching your fish happily swimming around before this, I'm beginning to think you might be on to something. They definitely have personality.
But I'm curious to know what you plan to do to protect your fish now you know there might be a predator around?
 
Tim Harrison said:
What a relief, Big Mama survived
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I'm afraid only 1 big mama survived.. The complete white fish.. The orange Big Mama got snapped i think.. Found some evidence at the crime scene, doing a size comparance, these about 10mm scales are to big for a juvenile goldfish. :(

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Definitively must have been a heron snapping them out.. The big white girl still doen't show, i only see the tip of her tail.. I hope she didn't suffer a blow and is not damaged.
Well hopefully only in her pride.. :)
 
frederick thompson said:
Shotgun comes to mind. Sorry for your loss mate

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Haha indeed i feel a bit like ELmer Fudge at the moment.. Already saw a heron fly over.. And tought there you are you basterd, returning to the crime sccene.
But hey, that's nature... Even tho i didn't invite him to come to diner...

Strange is, 3 weeks ago somebody asked aren't you afraid of the Heron for the first time.. Never had one over for a visit and now when asked the bugger shows up.
How about that..??..
 
Tim Harrison said:
But I'm curious to know what you plan to do to protect your fish now you know there might be a predator around?
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I still have such a large net, used to cover the load in a trailer or something..For the comming time i will put it over at night or when from home.. In case the killer comes back.. He likely will now it knows i have some easy pickings. Once the grape has grown large enough the tub will be covered from view again and no real safe spots fpr a big bird to land, at least from that what flies over.. I guess that, was what kept it out that long.. And first year counting 17 fish in the tub slowly getting bigger, big and bright in color and active enough to get spotted. The more the merrier, but the more also easier to spot.. It was a role of the dice one flying over before the grape was big enough.. :(
 
Throw a net over it at night.. Problem solved.. :)
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Fish are still in hiding and didn't touch the food at all.. So far the proclaimed 3 minute memory of a goldfish.. I guess all those scientific tests are all about what do you want a fish to remember? E=MC²?
 
zozo said:
Throw a net over it at night.. Problem solved.. :)
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Fish are still in hiding and didn't touch the food at all.. So far the proclaimed 3 minute memory of a goldfish.. I guess all those scientific tests are all about what do you want a fish to remember? E=MC²?
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When i net my koi. The said fish. That has been netted. Stays down on the bottom. For a week or two. Nine times out of ten.
So yes i agree. There memory is a lot longer then 3 minutes

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The first time it crossed my mind that fish have long memories and feel fear is when I started keeping platys. I actually only bought two females which were preggo and gave birth to all my generation. Those 2 platy fish always hid from me, even when their offspring grew up. The offspring was the friendliest fish ever bunching around my hands when the two big mama fish hid away. Whatever those two platy fish had experienced is unknown to me but they never trusted me...They seemed to despise humans.....I actually experienced the same with my first batch of clown loaches.....They slowly came around after 6 years but they were way too skittish even when other clown loaches I subsequently bought acted friendly.....
 
frederick thompson said:
When i net my koi. The said fish. That has been netted. Stays down on the bottom. For a week or two. Nine times out of ten.
So yes i agree. There memory is a lot longer then 3 minutes

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I guess that is when you have a big pond and there is little direct interaction with the fish.. For me i kept them for years in rather small invironment making interaction with the fish much more easier. The got to know me and in a way trust me that i meant no harm.. I could take them without a net if i was quick enough or even when i neted them as soon as released again all went back to normal and come towards me when i stick a hand in the water.

That's my experience with my fish and the way i handled them.. I had quite a lot personal and direct interaction with them. I don't realy see this be possible in a larger pond, than the barrier is to great to have any personal relationship.. Sounds silly, for some maybe idiotic, personal relationship with a fish. That's why i do not speak of it that much. But for me there definitively was.

And i realy wonder in how far this event will damage this relation ship. And how long it will take to trust me again as it was. I'm very curious about that.. :)

I once red in a history book about a Chinese emperor having a Koi pond and each Koi had it's own name and listened to it and came when called out. :)
By now i learned to doubt it is a legend, i think it is a true story.. :thumbup:
 
I have 5 fish that eat out my hand.
And my chag comes and lets me stroke its back. And belly. So i suppose they know me. And interact.
What i have started doing. Is with the little grow ons. I lean over the qt grow on. While they eat food. To get them used to people leaning over the side of the pond.
What i am getting at is they know danger. Like netting and being lifted out of water.
Plus topical treating. They know.
Same with your goldfish. They will remember that heron. Not by looks.
But by a big black shadow. So yeah they may take a while to trust again.
All mine come to the viewing window when they hear my conservatory door go. Or hear our voices.
First thing in a morning. For food.


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zozo said:
The got to know me and in a way trust me that i meant no harm.. I could take them without a net if i was quick enough or even when i neted them as soon as released again all went becj to normal and come towards me when i stick a hand in the water.
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I was actually going to say a similar thing. I bought a few baby clown loaches over the years which I quarantined in a small tank. I normally start doing daily water changes or every other day. The first couple of weeks the new fish dart away hiding in corners. As the weeks passed and I keep doing water changes and messing about, the fish started not caring one bit and swim in and out of my hands. The fish that I have owned now for a few years are fearless of me.

Two weeks back I decided to re-arrange one piece of driftwood in my pond. I hadn't even finished when curiosity took over and each species of fish decided to swim over to explore the new arrangement, swimming in and out of my hands and the driftwood,...For some reason they found it really interesting as I hadn't moved anything in the tank for over a year....A good while back I also added a couple of ceramic pots. It was a real big hit with the clown loaches which bunched around it and were literally sniffing it...They sort of surrounded the cave as if it was some holy object....It looks to me that fish need more stimulation than I tend to give mine.
 
Sorry to hear your loss:facepalm:
When specimen fishing it often pays to not keep casting and changing your bait, as the fish have worked out that fresh bait has lead them to being caught. Have baited swims and waited days without changing bait, even used plastic hook baits with great success. Takes time for the bigger wiser fish to get confident in a swim.

Read one story of an angler after the biggest carp in lake about 50lb. He used floating dog biscuits. First issue was the birds eating the biscuits, so he got several big bags and catapulted the biscuits to middle of lake few at a time till the birds was full, then continued the fish start to come up and eat them but not the one he was after, so he continued for days feeding the lake, then the big carp slowly started to feed. So he took his time for a few more days to let it gain confidence with the bait. Then set up his rod after being at the lake for nearly a week. Targeted the big fish only as he knew he would only get one chance. He caught it OFC then caught a few other smaller ones till the carp got wise.
So do fish have a memory? Yes IMO longer than you think.
 
On the back of the same topic, I just got up and took a video of "what happens when I lean over my pond"...What you see below is not their natural swimming pattern but frantic swimming because of excitement anticipating feeding. I don't feed them every time I go, only once or sometimes twice a day but they always get excited...If I sit for longer periods, they eventually calm down and go about their business. It happens that when I go over, all my clowns are in their pvc tube. Within a few seconds of me standing there all of them come out....I don't know how they know I am there. Up until 2-3 years ago when they saw me they hid until they thought I am not there...Now its the opposite...

 
You too Fred, you have a pond setup that invites that interaction, it's easy you can lean over it stick your hands and indeed they have that viewing window to look out as well. :)
Same as Sciencefiction has with her indoor tub pond room, sit next to it watch and interact or call it play wathever.

That way it comes more naturel the develop a relation ship they get to know you..

Having a large pond on ground level, than you have to dive in. Than there is a distance created more difficult to bridge.. Even in an aqaurium in the living room there is less interaction.. At least for me is, i don't stick my hands into the tank every day. That would anly make a mess.. But even these fish get to know you.. Mine do, if i stick the tweezers in they follow it around instead of flee.. :)
 
I'm sorry for your loss :( I'm surprised you were hit now. I'm in the middle of a housing estate, but we have to net our pond over winter to protect from herons. They fly over from the local canal/river, particularly if it's cold enough to ice over as the filter in the pond keeps a handy (to them) ice free patch. It's very odd seeing a giant heron casually perched on the neighbours roof watching. The net has been off for weeks now though. You don't have mink or similar near you do you?

A pop up mesh food cover or two might be a neat solution if you wanted an easier up/down - basically umbrellas without the handle and made of mesh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-Of-4...-Cover-Tents-Keep-Out-Flies-Bugs/263489336989

I think fish can be quite smart, they certainly recognise someone coming to feed them and gather appropriately. Likewise, if you turn up to catch them with a net they'll disappear. Poke the same net around to pull something out the bottom etc. and you'll end up with it full of the fish you are trying not to catch!
 
tam said:
You don't have mink or similar near you do you?
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Yup the whole package.. :) LAtely i saw my first wildlife Weasel in the park a few 100 yeards from my house.. Beautiful little creature.. :) Also spoted a racoon dog not so long ago at the same place.. They are exotic imports from rusia, but slowly establashing.. But i recon it was a Heron at least a true fish predator, because there was absolutely nothing disturbed to the smalles detail.. Only fish gone, a few water splashes on the floor and some fish scales floating around.

Still no idea how many i lost.. By now i guess 7, the biggest ones except 2 i already spotted.
 
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