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My first ever aquarium. Juwel Rio 180l

Rolymo,
Those numbers are all different ways of saying exactly the same thing. Those are just the General Hardness values measured on different scales, kind of like those banners that show the word "Hello" in 5 different languages. Looks like you water is fairly hard. Not a big deal right now.

In any case, General Hardness, which is a count of the combination of Calcium and Magnesium have nothing to do with EI dosing, which is all about Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium (NPK) and trace metals such as Iron, Zinc, Copper and so forth. There is no relevance. Dose per the instructions on your Starter Pack, and if you have the time and patience, you should thoroughly read the thread EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS in the Tutorial forum section.

Cheers,
 
Thanks Ceg4048
I think i must of got confused about the impact of water hardness and EI dosing. And yes I have the patience to read it.

I had read your brilliant explanation before, but was good to refresh myself with the new found knowledge.

Of course its all in gallons and I work in litres (European) so managed to understand the concepts you explain and find a calculator. Cannot believe it is so much cheaper than the Tropica stuff.

To me its all about making sure the fish are in a healthy environment and at the same time if I can provide healthy flora for them that is a bonus. Its a positive challenge and journey.

Thanks again and I appreciate your help. I know my input to the forum is nil and I take so much from it. My only hope is my humble tank journal is read by others and helps educate them too.
Best regards
Roland
 
Hi Roland,
Yes, the low cost is really the main point of the scheme, and that's why I point that out in the first paragraph of the post. Why pay for water when you have rivers of it falling from the sky every day?

But I also want to change people's concept of just what it means to provide a healthy environment for the fish. As many people do, beginners and experienced folks alike, in your mind you have the cart before the horse. The ecological system your fish live in is fundamentally structured around the plants, not the reverse. The two imperatives therefore go hand in hand. When you create an environment that satisfies the requirement of the plants, they then produce the environmental changes than benefit the fish. Plants do not simply sit there looking pretty. Plants are are chemical warhorses and they actively change the environment to suit their needs. Did you realize that all the Oxygen that is in the atmosphere right now came only from plants? Oxygen did not simply appear on Earth. Prior to the appearance of plants there was only CO2, Nitrogen and other noxious gasses in the atmosphere. Bacteria and later, algae, were the first to exploit the CO2 and water to make food. During this process they expelled Oxygen. It took a few billion years but we finally have an atmosphere that is 21% Oxygen. We could not have evolved into what we are today without this basic food making procedure of algae and plants. If plants disappear from the planet in significant quantities, our destruction will be assured.

In your tank, plants reproduce this basic and important process. They remove noxious Nitrogenous compounds and other inorganic toxicants such as metals from the water and they replace the toxicants with Oxygen, more Oxygen than the fish are able to obtain by themselves from it dissolving in the water from the air. Plants also remove and use the same Calcium and Magnesium that gives the water it's hardness. In so doing, plants also provide the extra Oxygen and carbohydrates necessary for the nitrifying bacteria to thrive in the sediment and in the filter, so you have a better, more diverse and healthier aerobic bacterial population in the tank and they oxidize the pollutants like Ammonia and Nitrite in the tank. The fact that your fish survived being thrown in the tank too early was aided in no small part to the beneficial action of the plants, who not only removed Ammonia directly, but also pumped up and accelerated the beneficial bacteria much faster than possible than in a tank devoid of plants. The only thing the plants cannot do is to remove the huge amount of organic waste that they themselves produce. You must do that with water changes.

So when you think about the tank system, it's better to think in terms of supplying the environment most beneficial to the plant health first. When you take care of the plants, they will then automatically take care of the fish. Obviously, we have to intervene because we have to set limits on the amount of CO2, and because it's a closed system, with no escape path for organic waste buildup, there has to be fresh new water regularly input to the system. The nutrients that we add do not harm the fish but under the lighting levels we impose, and under the CO2 levels that we inject, the nutrients are vital to the health of the plants. That's why, when we observe the tank and when we see problems with a plant, it is an early warning sign that the environmental conditions could be on the decline. So we try to find the best way to improve the conditions so that the plants are contributing to the improvement of the conditions instead of contributing to it's decline.

Hope this makes sense. ;)

Cheers,
 
Hi Ceg4048

Your eloquent explanation makes perfect sense, and further illustrates the magic of keeping a living, breathing tank. Its your very own slice of nature on show in your house. Do it right and it is living art. Probably why so many people are fascinated with aquascaping. I feel in some cases the fish are just the finish touch to the piece of art, and they of course are magical in their own right. Certainly my family love going to the big commercial aquariums as well as looking at the tank

There is an Interesting point in your third to last sentence, which reinforce the observation theme I am learning from you and the forum.

The nutrients that we add do not harm the fish but under the lighting levels we impose, and under the CO2 levels that we inject, the nutrients are vital to the health of the plants. That's why, when we observe the tank and when we see problems with a plant, it is an early warning sign that the environmental conditions could be on the decline. So we try to find the best way to improve the conditions so that the plants are contributing to the improvement of the conditions instead of contributing to it's decline
Click to expand...

As you mentioned cost is clearly a driver as it is cost efficient to mix your own. But is mixing your own or I should say EI delivering a more optimised set of nutrients than say the Tropica ferts?

Cheers
R
 
Really nice post Clive. I always seem to get great visualisations in my head while reading your posts, helps the information stay in there.

R,

If price wasn't enough of an advantage between EI and purchased ferts, you must have read the saying "every tank is different"? Well EI dosing allows you to easier customise for your tank, at that moment in time. If you need less Nitrate, then dose slightly less. If you need more potassium, then dose a bit more.

As the guys on here keep posting, your plants will tell you what they need. Just look at them for the signs. I guess stuff like bad growth, incorrect colours, holes in the leaves, yellowing of leaves etc.

The hardest part I find is that once you make a change it takes a while to actually see the results so being patient is key.

I'm in the same situation as you, just getting started with my first Juwel tank, and learning a lot from here as I go.
 
ceg4048 said:
Hi mate,
My personal preference is to hide the big black box in the right rear corner, so I would be more inclined to try a triangular arrangement with the faster growing hygrophila(?) or the cabomba moved more to mask it with progressively lower trims moving diagonally towards the left front corner. The problem with the cabomba is that it is subject to urban sprawl which contributes to flow blockage.

Again, the taller Alternanthera and (what appears to be) some kind of Ludwigia out to be move rearwards just in front of the more sprawling Cabomba. That's just one way of thinking though. There are many possibilities, but having a progressively lower heights towards the front diagonal should theoretically, at least, help with flow distribution.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Ceg4048
See revised photo of tank with Plant names instead. Can you name what you think the Cabomba and hygrophila was so I can then understand where you think the plants should be moved? Please and thank you.
florainmytank.png
 
Hi Roland,
Sorry, I was too lazy to go back through the thread to confirm the identities. What I was calling the Cabomba is actually the L. Sessiflora (it sprawls like the Cabomba) and what I called the Hygrophila is actually the H. zosterfolia. I do apologize for the confusion.

Yes, the H. zosterfolia is a very fast growing plant, so you can use it to cover the box. The Luwigia as you can see, tends to grow a bit thin and straggly, so you need to prune it more often in order for it to get bushier. I would separate it from the Alternanthera and use it's red color to accent a different area, perhaps in the mid-ground between the ferns/crypts and the sprawlers in the back. It looks better if you keep it mid height and bushy rather than tall and lanky.

The same story goes for the Alternanthera. The two groves are best kept together, and for now can be kept at mid height.

The Amanias look "exposed" over there in the corner. In my opinion they woul look better in the spot vacated by the Sessiflora. That area where they are now would look better (to me) if it were just carpeted.

Again, these are just some possibilities. There are many ways to skin the cat.

Cheers,
 
eeek my first Decline

Sorry I have not posted for a few weeks.

To update

I have weened myself off the programme of alternating the 2 Tropica ferts every day and switched to EI, mixed into the bottles that came with the EI starter kit from one of the Sponsors.

Still struggling to get the CO2 correct. Partly due to the difficulty in getting the flow right means turning the knob sometimes by 1mm any more causes major bubbles. That difficulty causes me to leave it at a slower flow day and night. But I believe the plants need more that 1 bubble per second.

The second variable that I believe has caused a decline in the tank is that I have a battery backup electronic timer switch for the lights. Ever since UK has reverted to GMT and I adjusted the switch, the lights come on additionally at some point from midnight to 7am. My guess is 4am. This has happened over a few nights this week and I believe has caused a lot of melting of the plants and the BBS algae on tank glass.

Today I have spent a few hours rectifying stuff. In order
1. Reset the timer switch to factory settings and then reprogrammed the clock and lights on time to be 4pm to 10pm every day.
2. Prune the plants that have been affected by the melt and lack of CO2 and food.
3. Prodded the substrate to release any bad gas.
4. Scrapped off the algae from the glass and rocks.
5. Syphoned out 75% water and hoovered the tank floor.
6. Replaced with tap water and relevant declorinator
7. Started the EI cycle.
8. Changed my white sponge thing in the filter.

So initial observations

Blimey the water is extremely cold, and looks like it affected the fish. One Cardinal looked like it was dying. I switched on the lights to help speed up the warming of the water (CO2 was on).

Left for a an hour and switched off the lights and checked everything. Tetras were swimming normally......

But found a Red Phantom Tetra by the filter intake clearly wiped out and dying. Turned off the filter to see what would happen and the poor thing just floated near the surface with very little movement. Prodded gently and still not good.

So I am rushed to create an ice bath in a tupperware tub and got a smaller one and scooped out the fish into some tank water and then settled that into the ice bath. It clearly was on deaths door and I hope and reduced its suffering.

So Questions:-
1. The water in my mind was very cold. Outdoor air temp has been 4 degree Celcius. Should I somehow be warming 90litres of water up before a water change?
2. Is that cold water going to distress the fish out?

Oh and my wife's original Platy that seemed to be segregated from the rest of the fish finally died. It was fished out immediately. The kids were a bit upset. So we are going to release it into a stream along with the youngest Sea Monkeys that she has got bored of.

R :(
 
Hi mate,
These are tropical fish, so it's one of the worst mistakes you can make to put near ice water in the tank. Use warm water from the tap or mix water in a tub/sink and pump it into the tank. Get a long hose from the garden center or hardware shop that fits over the nearest tap.

Cheers,
 
Tank back on track and looking clear

After the decline episode which was due clearly to lack of CO2 as always it seems, I have spent the last few weeks in ensuring there is a good flow of CO2 into the tank. i.e. I upped the bubble count to approx 2 bubbles/sec.

Also pruned some the plants down a little and moved some of them around to try and get a scene going. Likewise I used some of the issues of AquaJournal online to look at the suggested pruning principles on different types of flora, as well as cutting heights as you go along the tank. All great info.

Algae and melting plants have been knocked back into shape.

I decided to add 200ml of Seachem's Purigen to a 70 Denier cut off from a pair of tights (ended with a rubberband) and then place underneath the black active carbon sponge in the Bioflow filter. Instead of removing the active carbon sponge I left it inside as it provided a flat layer for the white wool layer (one of stopping debris) going through). So that is an additional layer in the filter which I imagine has stepped down the efficiency of the flow.

Wow what a difference the Purigen has made! Stunning. So stunning that you would not believe there is any water in the tank. It just looks like plants are growing in air and fish are swimming in the air too. Very bizarre. Its like watching HD tv for the first time. You are memorised by the effect.

So I will monitor the flow over the next week to see if the degrade in flow causes melting of the plants.

Also have done 2 water changes from the tap with mixed cold and hot water to create a good temperature water to put into the tank.

Phew. First decline, watched, identified, learned from and made adjustments to compensate and bring back equilibrium..... for the moment.
:thumbup:
R
 
No idea!
Is it still there or has it gone?
 
A few questions about the spot:

Has it changed size or appearance?

Have more appeared?

Does the fish appear stressed or is it rubbing against plants or hard scape?
 
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