need some advice on my new tank calling CEG and the plantoph

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by Angus, 28 Feb 2009.

  1. Angus

    Angus Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Vauxhall, London.
    im setting up a new 4ft Iwagumi tank, i have all the equipment i need setup is as follows.

    4ft clearseal tank 48"L 15"H 12"W

    Arcadia 4x 54W luminaire with phillips 6500k lamps. (only using 2 of the 4 bulbs)

    DIY FE pressurized co2 using drop checker and DIY needlewheel powerhead diffuser.

    EI method using KH2PO4 KNO3 and AE trace mix.

    Eco complete substrate.

    going to be planting approx 75% of the substrate.

    plant species: Hemianthus Callitrichoides, Eleocharis parvulus, Hemianthus Micranthemoides, Lilaeopsis mauritiana.


    basically the advice im looking for is on inital setup, i have a good knowledge of whats needed for general maintenance and a good knowledge about fert and co2 levels after initial setup, but im just wondering what to do for the first 2 weeks or so, what to dose and how much, im looking to do this tank right as ive had some success before but they have turned into algae farms due to neglect, any help and tips are appreiciated. Regards, Angus.
     
  2. YzemaN

    YzemaN Member

    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Heheh... I can see this turning into a religion. CEGism, including diverging factions :D
    Just dose full ei. You might want to cut lighting period down to 6 or 7 hours to begin with. Otherwise just make sure you have plenty of turnover and keep up the maintenance.
     
  3. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,091
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Hi Angus

    I'm not Clive but I've set up a few new algae-free tanks...

    Just use two of the lamps. Four will give you algae issues. 6 hours is plenty. Even two tubes over your tank is high light, as it's relatively shallow and narrow.

    Plant as many individual plantlets as possible. It will take you many hours to plant, but you will get a faster spread an less risk of algae.

    Change 50% water daily for the first couple of weeks, if you can.

    Try and use some mature filter media if possible. This will limit ammonia that is said to trigger algae.

    What filter are you using? Decent circulation is a key element for success in a set up like yours.
     
  4. Angus

    Angus Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Vauxhall, London.
    i happen to know of you actually george ;) lol love your tanks and scapes m8, im only going to be using 2 of the 4 tubes in the luminaire, ive done the seperating into plantlets thing before laborious but it is worth it and ill be doing it again, ive got a mature external filter too, its a JBL cristl profi 500 rated for 1200lph and the powerhead i have DIY'ed into a diffuser is rated as 600GPH with media in the unit, but im using it with DIY guard so nothing gets sucked into the powerhead.

    so i should just dose full ei from the first day of planting? i would only be able to do water changes in the evening after work and would be dosing in the morning before going to work while the lights are still off would this be ok? and are the water changes purely to remove ammonia from the tank?
     
  5. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,091
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Filter/circulation sounds ideal.

    Yes, you can dose full EI from day one, assuming you keep a stable 30ppm CO2. If you're not adding livestock you could add more CO2 still.

    Your dosing and water change timings sound fine. As long as they're regular - that's the main consideration.

    The water changes help to prevent algae by diluting ammonia, I think. Whatever they do - it works!

    FYI, I'm establishing a new setup as we speak - it's about 10 days old. Plant biomass is minimal (3 pots of HC and 1 pot of hairgrass in a 60 litre). I'm using the full ADA system and ammonia levels are sky high, despite a huge mature external filter designed for a 500 litre tank. I'm changing 50% water twice daily and I'm not seeing any algae, despite the ammonia readings and low plant biomass. So either the ADA substrate and fert system is magic, or the large frequent water changes are helping to prevent the algae.

    So if you do anything, remember to do plenty of water changes... Even better if your tap water is loaded with nutrients.
     
  6. Angus

    Angus Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Vauxhall, London.
    i'm gonna keep on top of the water changes then, that sounds like the key i've been missing, and living in london my tap water is like a veritable shmorgisbord of macro and micro nutrients :p
     
  7. Dave Spencer

    Dave Spencer Member

    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    N. Wales
    Definitely hammer the water changes...this will also help to keep the algae spore number count down, too.

    May strategy is:

    Control lighting (intensity and photoperiod)
    High CO2
    Keep ammonia down (50% daily water changes for approx 1 month, zeolite)
    Dose full ferts from the start
    Use mature filter media and mulm
    Snails
    Large, fast growing plant mass (not always possible in aquascaping)

    I am in the same boat as George regarding plant mass in my latest 60cm set up. I have one pot of HC which is still waiting to take off, two pots of HC and one of Didiplis diandra. Controlling the light, high and stable CO2, and getting rid of the ammonia from the Aqua Soil are priority.

    Dave.
     
  8. Angus

    Angus Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Vauxhall, London.
    cheers for the advice everyone its really given me a boost, getting this 4 foot tank has really revived my planted tank enthusiasm as it was waining a bit waiting to get all the bits together to start something really good.

    I've been slaving away searching for rocks on the thames, then lugging them back in my rucksack, got about 6 big ones now and a load of medium and small ones, they obviously arent as great as the ada stone or anything but ive got a couple of crackers, ive tried to pick generally the same type of stone, colour etc but its very hard on the thames because you have every type of stone imaginable i dont think they look too bad tho.

    Im going to put in the eco complete today i think, then get the tank sited and have a play around with hardscape :) cant wait but i have to move my whole room around atm because the 3ft tank i am transferring the fish from is on one side of the room on the stand the 4ft needs to go on and ive gotta move the stand to the other side of the room to prevent it getting bathed in sunlight in the morning lol gonna be a bit of jenga going on.
     
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    Sounds like a cracker of a tank when it's done mate :)

    Sorry to thread hijack, but just wanted to ask if both George and Dave have added livestock to their 60cm's yet, or if they're waiting for amonia levels to calm down?

    The reason I ask is that I'm in the middle of stripping down a tank (coffee break :)) and have got as far as stripping out most of the substrate. I'm keeping some of it as a base layer (it's got Tetra Complete mingled in with it), rinsed of some to go on top, and caping with new gravel/sand. I'm going to use some AS Amazonia, maybe half a big bag, in key areas where I'll be planting, and plant mass will be pretty high from the start (stems mostly). I'll also be using 2 mature EX1200's from the start.

    I have the livestock housed in a smaller tank, and need to get it back into this tank when it's done today (hopefully!) I assume I should be doing regular (daily?) water changes for the next few weeks?

    Cheers guys, and again, sorry for the thread hijak! :)

    Steve.
     
  10. Dave Spencer

    Dave Spencer Member

    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    N. Wales
    I usually add fish once the plants are well established and any nuisance algae has gone. The ammonia from the Amazonia will be gone by then.

    Unfortunately, when I set up the 120cm, I was pushed in to getting fish way before the tank was established in terms of CO2 and flow. This tank introduced me to a whole new world of turn over rates, and I am sorry to say a few Copper harlequins bought it before I got the distribution of CO2 right.

    Never rush getting the fish in to the tank.

    Dave.
     
  11. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    I'm not Jewish, I'm a Roman. My fathers name was Naughtius Maximus. He was the son of Sillius Saurus, who had a vewy good fwiend in Wome by the name of Bhyggus Dhykus...

    Cheers,
     
  12. George Farmer

    George Farmer Founder Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,091
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    For me it's no livestock until NH3/4 and NO2 are undetectable. This usually takes around 10-14 days with Aqua Soil Amazonia, longer if using an immature filter. I don't use zeolite or Purigen though, just carbon to prevent any staining of the water that is common with Aqua Soil and hardwater, apparently.

    As soon as NH3/4 and NO2 test at zero I may a small qty. of algae eaters, then build up stock gradually over the weeks.

    As Dave says, fish stocking shouldn't be rushed - not just from a pollution perspective, but I like to take time to choose display fish that suit the aquascape. It's like the icing on the cake.
     
  13. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    This is an existing tank which I've torn down, and housed the fish in a smaller tank temporarily. I think I'm going to look at housing the fish somewhere more permanent for the next few weeks :/
     
  14. Angus

    Angus Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Vauxhall, London.
    decided on the planting for this now, gonna be HC, Eleocharis parvula, and lilaeopsis mauritiana, stem plant is going to be HM if the lfs can get it, or pogostemon stellata if they cant, ordered 12 pots in all does that sound a good ammount?
     

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