New Chihiros RGB Vivid - looks VERY promising

jaypeecee

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Bracknell
Hi @oreo57
Anyways let's start at the spore level where it all begins
Spores can only eat ammonium.
No free ammonium no algae.
Sources include leaky plant tissue,bacteria decomposition ect
Green algae has basically the same photosynthetic system as higher plants so why would you think spectrum matters?
Ammonium, albeit at a very low level, will be present in the tank water all the time for the very reason you mention - leaky plant tissue, bacteria decomposition, etc. And algae spores utilize this for growth. Algae (and cyanobacteria) also need iron in the water column. And, photoreduction of ferric iron to ferrous iron ensures a supply of this element. Photoreduction occurs at wavelengths below approximately 500nm and that's why spectrum matters.

JPC
 

oreo57

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
78
Location
USA
Hi @oreo57




Ammonium, albeit at a very low level, will be present in the tank water all the time for the very reason you mention - leaky plant tissue, bacteria decomposition, etc. And algae spores utilize this for growth. Algae (and cyanobacteria) also need iron in the water column. And, photoreduction of ferric iron to ferrous iron ensures a supply of this element. Photoreduction occurs at wavelengths below approximately 500nm and that's why spectrum matters.

JPC
There is no shortage of people adding various forms of iron. Higher plants need it too.
Most effective way to combat algea is a clean tank and plenty of CO2. Spectrum would be way low on the list.
Vigorous plant growth is the biggest key afaict.

Once spores germinate nitrates are back on the lunch table.

Spectrum correlation to algae?
There is persistent myth out there that having more blue light gives rise to more algae. Having seen thousands of tank examples, I don't see this correlation arising at all. This is also a consistent observation by other expert plant growers such as Tom barr. Algae is always closely linked with overall plant health and tank cleanliness, organic waste levels. Higher light intensity triggers algae faster in tanks with trigger factors but spectrum (as far as hobbyist tanks are concerned) are a non factor.
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/blogs/beginners-planted-tank-101/best_light_spectrum
 
Last edited:

rebel

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2015
Messages
2,092
Would this spectrum question be fairly easy to test? One can just a use a red 660nm LED and see whether plants grow ok in that? etc etc? I know that the interest won't be there to investigate aquatic plants but surely there has been tests with the favourite research Ganja plant?
 

oreo57

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
78
Location
USA
Would this spectrum question be fairly easy to test? One can just a use a red 660nm LED and see whether plants grow ok in that? etc etc? I know that the interest won't be there to investigate aquatic plants but surely there has been tests with the favourite research Ganja plant?
Plenty of studies on plants and spectrum going back at least 8 years.
Problem is some things are species specific.
Secondly some things are unrelated to our needs in general.. Like improving flavor via select spectrums
though some flavorings are pigments.
Initiating flowering.. , using UV to increase cannabis potency and also help ward off pests (compounds, not just the UV itself)... ect.
Random asst. of examples.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/home/plant_growth.html
https://academic.oup.com/aobpla/article/10/5/ply052/5095468
https://www.migrolight.com/best-grow-light-spectrum/
https://www.ledsmagazine.com/horticultural-lighting/article/14177513/automatoes-team-wins-wageningen-autonomous-horticultural-challenge?utm_source=LED+Horticulture&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CPS200723011&o_eid=9875B5209056H5D&rdx.ident[pull]=omeda|9875B5209056H5D&oly_enc_id=9875B5209056H5D
http://hortamericas.blogspot.com/2015/05/could-leds-replace-plant-growth.html
Still doesn't address the "algae thing". The assumption: Heavy blue in freshwater favors algae, heavy red in saltwater tanks favors algae..
 
Last edited:

rebel

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2015
Messages
2,092
Still doesn't address the "algae thing". The assumption: Heavy blue in freshwater favors algae, heavy red in saltwater tanks favors algae..
would be an interesting project isn't it? Light is fairly easy to control IMHO as compared to CO2/flow etc.
 

oreo57

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
78
Location
USA
would be an interesting project isn't it? Light is fairly easy to control IMHO as compared to CO2/flow etc.
Except look at it in the opposite direction and compare..
https://algaeresearchsupply.com/pages/lighting-for-algae-cultures

The spectrum of sunlight is perfect for growing most algae. It does contain UV (ultraviolet) that can damagae the genetic material of algae, think sunburn. Also sunlight contains IR (infrared) which is essentially heat. Figure-7 below, shows the visible light spectrum from sunlight, recall that PAR is 400-700nM.
. Our results show that algae grows the best under white light and more in blue light than red light. Therefore, our hypothesis is partially supported because the growth rate was higher under the blue light in comparison to the red group; however, the algae under the control condition experienced the most growth. The results of this experiment are useful to biofuel producers because they could use white light to increase the growth rate of algae, which in turn produces more biofuel.
https://undergradsciencejournals.okstate.edu/index.php/jibi/article/view/3872

Point is EVEN IF there is a small advantage to algae w/ blue light there are other means of control and the fact that blue is also beneficial to higher plants
in terms of both photosynthesis and pigments

Time, light intensity and the algae antenna also
control the photosynthesis process. Excess light even in the appropriate wavelengths will be
converted in to heat and not used for photosynthesis. Light with wavelengths between 600-700nm is
the most efficient for photosynthesis. Light emitting diodes (LEDs) with a peak weavelength of
643nm are the most cost effective light source if operation of the PBR is 1 year or more...
Summary and Conclusions
Microalgal interaction with light was discussed. The discussion showed that the most
important wavelength range for photosynthesis is between 600-700nm for algae, with possibility
of using 400-500nm to increase the overall amount of photosynthesis. Different light sources
were discussed detailing their advantages and disadvantages as a light source. The following
can be concluded from the results and discussion presented
https://www.researchgate.net/public...the_growth_of_algae_in_a_Photo-Bioreactor_PBR
Keep in mind this is in regards to a single organism setup.
Same blue advantage is present in higher plants.
In a sense both "schools" are partially right but practically the minor algae advantage (IF it exists) is not a viable method of control really.
Heavy blue fw tanks don't support that conclusion.

for the sake of an arguement let's say red light is algae free (from the above paper(s) it wouldn't be) would you want a red tank?
how would a tank of just green light grow and look?

Need to reiterate this all refers to green algae, not blue green bacteria (removed w/ antibiotics) red (ie BBA, cleaning and high CO2 healthy plants. Won't grow on growing, healthy or dead leaves for the most part. Those at intermediate stages are susceptible. YMMV) or brown diatoms (remove silicates)

When all is said and done, prevention is the best method of algae management.
https://www.liveaquaria.com/article/4/?aid=4
 
Last edited:

dw1305

Expert
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
10,477
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
Point is EVEN IF there is a small advantage to algae w/ blue light there are other means of control and the fact that blue is also beneficial to higher plants in terms of both photosynthesis and pigments
That would be my point as well.

cheers Darrel
 

Similar threads

Top