Newbie help please

[acjrb]

Hi,

I've been pointed in this direction by my local fish shop - I've read lots of existing threads but am struggling with the science so apologies for the long post/ if I post anything I shouldn't - hopefully this is allowed and someone can help! The nitrogen cycle is about all I can manage science wise and everything I've seen online is very technical so I'm hoping for some very low level advice please.

In short, we recently went to our local shop and asked for advice on what fish to add to our tank. We have had a community tank for a few years now. We have found that mollies, tetra and loaches do well in our tank but guppies, betas, gouramis, angels and rams sadly do not. (I take our responsibility to our fish very seriously and want them all to do well, hence posting here for help - I promise I really am trying my best and no one feels worse about our failures than me.) The shop advised this was due to our water parameters and said something about Amazonian species being better for us. I think it was to do with our water being very soft in Edinburgh but am not 100% on that. Apparently the fish we currently have (mollies, tetra, loach) are hardy and adaptable which is why they are okay but we can still improve out water to make things more optimal for them. He mentioned putting a rock in the tank to improve the water/ raise the level of something but I can't remember more than that - he was a lovely chap who spoke to us for ages but my own ignorance means I didn't follow everything he was saying.

I appreciate so far this has been about the tank not plants, but I wanted to give background in case it is of relevance.

He said the other thing that would help improve the water for our fish is having live plants. We tried real plants before but struggled to maintain them even with fertiliser/ our fish destroyed them so we gave up and used artificial. We have been advised to get real plants again before adding more fish (apparently this will improve some form of water parameters that are too low , over and above the oxygen benefit?) so are trying to do so! I have spent a couple of hours reading now but am not much further forward in understanding what I need to do or why. We have a125l tank with gravel and my understanding is we need to keep the gravel for the loach. We have fluval LED lighting that is on during the day.

My research has made me think we need soil or sand (or nutrient soil with sand on top?) to maintain a planted aquarium but I'm not sure. The man in the shop mentioned we can use a basket to plant in and to avoid replacing the gravel but I haven't come across that in my reading. After that I think we will need to feed the plants with liquid or tablet fertiliser weekly. I have seen things about C02 cannisters but that all looks a bit scary to me so would like to avoid that and keep as simple as possible, if we can.

In short, I'm looking some very unscientific advice on how best to introduce plants to our current aquarium! Ideally;

• what substrate do we need
• how do we maintain it/ keep the plants alive in as low-maintenance a manner as possible
• what do the plants do to the water parameters (besides help with oxygen) that will make the water better for the fish?

Thank you in advance for reading this and hopefully for the help too!

 

[Tim Harrison]

Hi and welcome to the forum. For starters it might be an idea to have a go at reading some of the articles in the Tutorial section. For instance, the article below should give you more background about how to start a planted tank, I think it's fairly accessible.

Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide

The Soil Substrate Planted Tank - a How to Guide... ...or Zen and an Introduction to the Art of Underwater Gardening with Soil or Dirt... ...or The Hybrid-Energy Approach. Introduction In writing this I hope to illustrate that using soil substrate offers a range of possibilities and that it's...

www.ukaps.org

what substrate do we need

I think in you'd probably be better off with sand as a substrate. Over time it becomes mixed with mulm and will provide a decent planting medium.

• how do we maintain it/ keep the plants alive in as low-maintenance a manner as possible

Read the article linked above

what do the plants do to the water parameters (besides help with oxygen) that will make the water better for the fish?

Plants provide a large number of benefits, cover, maintain water quality, reproduce a more natural environment etc.

 

[LMuhlen]

There are many reasons why fish may die in a tank and some aren't really because of the tank. They may have diseases or genetic problems which may be endemic to the farms where they are raised. They may have suffered excessive stress from their origin to your house, which we don't really see until they die. They may have had trouble adapting to your tank, even though the tank itself would be OK if they had adapted. And then there are endless ways in which your tank may be inadequate for specific species. And sometimes a little bit of everything. Gouramis and Angels are usually very good at adapting, so maybe they were sick already.

Regarding plants, there are all kinds of them, some are very demanding and some are not. You would be looking for those which are not and then you could get away with keeping them in many different ways.

Substrate: you can use something as simple as plain silica sand. Avoid anything too coarse or excessively thin. 1~5mm grains should work.
Maintenance: undemanding plants need light, some kind of nutrient supply and clean water. You could dose liquid fertilizers to your water directly, which is the simplest route. Sometimes undemanding plants get by even with no extra fertilization other than what is naturally in your water.
Regarding what plants do to help with water quality, the most significant contribution is the consumption of ammonia, which the fishes and the microbes in the tank generate and that is toxic to your fishes. In a "cycled" tank, the ammonia will naturally be oxidized into nitrates, and the plants consume those as well, preventing accumulation.

 

[Myrtle]

Welcome!
First off, don't worry about not understanding the science; I don't understand a lot of it either!
I think the water is soft where you are which most plants prefer and may or may not be relevant to why your other fish failed to thrive, for example, Betta would prefer your softer water over harder water. One of the benefits to the water quality of using live plants is that they will feed from the nutrients provided by the fish waste (as well as fertiliser, of course).
The simplest way to start with plants is to buy the slow growing types which can be glued/tied to things like rock or wood. This means you don't have to think about changing substrate (yet). Things like Java fern and Anubias are good ones to start with. They won't grow fast though and won't take up as much nutrition as some of the stem plants. Most stem plants would prefer sand to root into, but a simple, faster growing one is Elodea, usually sold in bunches in fish shops. This can even just be left to float on the surface.
The links provided above are good reading (just skip anything you don't get, or ask, or search the forum as someone else has probably been bamboozled by it before and asked!).

 

[jamiep]

I am central Edinburgh, with soft tap water of 0 KH and GH is maybe 3 if I recall. I add buffer to raise these to 2-3 and 5-6. Don't rely on rocks, which will give swings in these parameters every water change and won't make it easy for you to guess what your parameters are. And I do 60% weekly water changes to maintain the KH. You mention both soft and hard water fish, with the hard ones not being suitable for Edinburgh water, don't add any more fish until you research this.

I have Java Fern going spare after I have just re-scaped my tank, which you don't plant but attach to wood/rocks. Send me a message and I will meet you if central with some cuttings. This is an undemanding plant to grow

 

[sparkyweasel]

Welcome!
Good advice above.
If you could post lots of info about your tank (and pics if possible) you'll get lots more.

 

[AlecF]

All that Jamie says. I'll just add, I find Hydrocotyle (Brazilian Pennywort) a very easy plant to start with. It can grow planted and also floating, and seems to do well in our soft water, as well as being reasonably robust – I'm also Edinburgh and still figuring out what to add. (Maybe some more detail what buffers you use Jamie?). Sand is good advice and I find it easy to clean as you can see excess food on the surface. It would help to see photos of your tank. Some loaches get quite big. For the plants, buy one of the simple ready mixed ferts, like Tropica. And then you can gravitate to mixing your own if and when you feel like it. Adding a squirt of liquid ferts when you feed is an easy way to remember. Amazon swords can be quite easy in our water. Like you, I have steered away from CO2 for now. Anubias stuck to wood is always a good idea. You can collect and dead pieces of oak or beech, boil them, scrape off any bark, soak them, and then use them for the Anubias. You can also collect dead leaves from these trees and add them.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS.

I've been pointed in this direction by my local fish shop

<"Well that is a good start">, a lot of LFS would try and sell you a product, rather than pointing you at a free resource. You can't over-estimate how important having a <"fish keeper with a shop"> is.

I'd also definitely try and have a meet and chat with @jamiepearson (edit and @AlecF) as well, you can't beat <"knowing people">.

In terms of plants the <"Tropica Easy Range"> should offer some options. Have a look at "Seasoned Tank Time".

.

We have been advised to get real plants again before adding more fish (apparently this will improve some form of water parameters that are too low , over and above the oxygen benefit?) so are trying to do so! I have spent a couple of hours reading now but am not much further forward in understanding what I need to do or why.

Simple enough, but a bit more reading / viewing for you for you. There are a <"number of advantage of real plants">, they

• Are massively net oxygen producers, and <"dissolved oxygen"> is the thing that keeps your tank healthy.
• Pland take up all forms of <"fixed nitrogen">.
• they take up other nutrients, like phosphate (PO4---).
• they provide a <"healthier environment for the fish">.

As soon as you add plants in you have <"plant/microbe nitrification">, and that is potentially a lot more effective than "microbe only" nitrification, there are a number of reasons for this, but a major one is the net <"positive oxygen production of plants">, because nitrification is an <"oxygen intensive process">.

cheers Darrel