No Nitrite, Nitrate.

[Jaseon]

So im cycling with some Dr tims ammonia, and a few filter media squeezing's.

After a week ammonia has gone from 2ppm to 0, and nitrite/ nitrate levels are the same. Is it possible i have missed the other spikes from the last time i tested 24hrs ago?

I did the same process with my other tank recently, and showed a noticeable nitrite spike, and ammonia 0 .

 

[plantnoobdude]

So im cycling with some Dr tims ammonia, and a few filter media squeezing's.

After a week ammonia has gone from 2ppm to 0, and nitrite/ nitrate levels are the same. Is it possible i have missed the other spikes from the last time i tested 24hrs ago?

I did the same process with my other tank recently, and showed a noticeable nitrite spike, and ammonia 0 .

Is the tank heavily planted? It is entirely possible the plants used all the ammonia.

 

[xZaiox]

Your nitrates are testing 0? What test kit are you using? If you're using API then be aware that the #2 nitrate bottle requires vigorous shaking, I believe it contains a substance that falls out of suspension when it rests, and requires shaking to put it back in suspension, otherwise it will test as 0 every time. I give it a good whack on a hard tabletop a few times before shaking.

Is your tap water very soft? Or are you using RO water?

 

[Jaseon]

Is the tank heavily planted? It is entirely possible the plants used all the ammonia.

I have a few Ferns, and a moss wall that's not grown in yet although there is quite a lot of moss there.

Your nitrates are testing 0? What test kit are you using? If you're using API then be aware that the #2 nitrate bottle requires vigorous shaking, I believe it contains a substance that falls out of suspension when it rests, and requires shaking to put it back in suspension, otherwise it will test as 0 every time. I give it a good whack on a hard tabletop a few times before shaking.

Is your tap water very soft? Or are you using RO water?

It looks like the Nitrite spiked through the night as my Nitrate is at 5.0 ppm. Giving the bottles a good slam, and shake seems to have done the trick. Cheers

It might be the case that Nitrite get converted into Nitrate a lot quicker, and doesnt hang around as much as ammonia? I know every system is different.

 

[jaypeecee]

It is entirely possible the plants used all the ammonia.

Hi @plantnoobdude

Absolutely. I have a tank in which I let the plants take care of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I have never added any nitrifying bacteria products to this tank.The only electromechanical filter in this tank is an Eheim skim350 surface skimmer.

This tank has been running for just over a year. It is home to Vietnamese Cardinal Minnows and Otocinclus. It is almost zero maintenance.

JPC

 

[John q]

So im cycling with some Dr tims ammonia, and a few filter media squeezing's.

After a week ammonia has gone from 2ppm to 0, and nitrite/ nitrate levels are the same. Is it possible i have missed the other spikes from the last time i tested 24hrs ago?

It's possible, but highly unlikely.
Best possible advice from an ex ammonia cycle disciple is ~ Ditch the dr tims, he's an honest rouge, ditch the test kits they are dishonest rouges.
What you need to do is sit back, chill, and allow nature to do its thing. 😁

 

[plantnoobdude]

It's possible, but highly unlikely.
Best possible advice from an ex ammonia cycle disciple is ~ Ditch the dr tims, he's an honest rouge, ditch the test kits they are dishonest rouges.
What you need to do is sit back, chill, and allow nature to do its thing. 😁

Couldn’t agree more, I’m not sure why this ammonia method for cycling is recommended or even seen as standard in most US based fish keeping communities.

 

[hypnogogia]

Couldn’t agree more, I’m not sure why this ammonia method for cycling is recommended or even seen as standard in most US based fish keeping communities.

There’s just no need for it. Tanks will cycle by themselves in time.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have a few Ferns, and a moss wall that's not grown in yet although there is quite a lot of moss there.

So im cycling with some Dr tims ammonia, and a few filter media squeezing's.

I've got a lot of time for <"Dr Tim Hovanec">, but you just need the <"filter media squeezings">.

here’s just no need for it. Tanks will cycle by themselves in time.

I agree with the others, just stop adding the ammonia. It is likely to damage both ferns and mosses and it won't help cycle the tank. If you are worried about the tank not being "cycled" just add <"some fast growing plants">. I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, but any <"floated stem"> would do.

ditch the test kits they are dishonest

It was partially the <"difficulties in nitrate testing"> (NO3-) that led to the development of the <"Duckweed Index">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Jaseon]

What you need to do is sit back, chill, and allow nature to do its thing. 😁

There’s just no need for it. Tanks will cycle by themselves in time.

Not being funny here, but what does 'in time' mean? Are we talking several weeks, several months? Are you looking to grow your plants in, and thats your que to add livestock if any? What about no plants?

What about testing are you doing that at all?

I like the idea of adding ammonia as i can see the results as they happen. Is it not a proven way to cycle?

I would like to get on with the hobby, and not wait a year

 

[AlecF]

It doesn't take a year. You could also get some seeded media from someone in the hobby nearby? I sometimes wonder why more people don't add a small sponge filter to their tank and then pass this on to someone when needed, or use it themselves. They take up very little room and add oxygen.

 

[Jaseon]

It doesn't take a year. You could also get some seeded media from someone in the hobby nearby? I sometimes wonder why more people don't add a small sponge filter to their tank and then pass this on to someone when needed, or use it themselves. They take up very little room and add oxygen.

Im just kidding around about it taking a year. I already seeded from some media, and should have gone just for that without the ammonia.

 

[John q]

Not being funny here, but what does 'in time' mean? Are we talking several weeks, several months? Are you looking to grow your plants in, and thats your que to add livestock if any?

Well you can add ammonia and it will probably take 3 to 4 weeks to cycle the tank, at this point you can slowly start adding livestock.
Alternatively you can concentrate on plant growth, and once this happens you can slowly start adding livestock, ballpark guesstimate 4 to 5 weeks.

Like I said above I've done fish in cycles, fishless, and plant and wait method, by far the less stressful of these was plant and wait.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Are we talking several weeks,

I like six weeks as <"belt and braces">. Have a look at <"Cory's Aquarium CO-Op"> - <"Seasoned Tank Time"> video.

Are you looking to grow your plants in, and thats your que to add livestock if any?

Yes.

What about no plants?

I'm not personally going there, but in the <"Mbuna scenario"> you would need some form of <"ammonia based cycling">, the reason I'm not going there is that"<plant / microbe nitrification"> is a lot more efficient than "microbe only" (there isn't any "plant only").

What about testing are you doing that at all?

No, <"I'm not">. I actually look after a lab., with analytical equipment <"New bit of kit - MP-AES">, but there are <"issues with accurate testing"> (a major one of those is time, and another money). If there was a resonably priced, accurate dip ,meter for nitrate (NO3-) testing? I'd recommend it.

I like the idea of adding ammonia as i can see the results as they happen.

You can see a result, but it isn't necessarily accurate, and even if it was it wouldn't necessarily tell you whether the tank was fish safe.

Is it not a proven way to cycle?

No, it was based on a <"best guess"> from the bacteria isolated from sewage sludge. They required high ammonia loading and carbonate hardness. The problem is that <"they don't actually occur in aquarium filters">. This is what Tim Hovanec himself says in <"Bacteria Revealed">.

I like to think that our knowledge about nitrification has gone from motorway from A to B, with no alternative and every chance of the motorway being closed to a London Underground map with many different ways of <"getting to your destination">.

If I was a betting man, (I'm not) I would put money on ammonia based cycling <"taking longer"> to get to "tank safe" in <"almost all scenarios">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Like I said above I've done fish in cycles, fishless, and plant and wait method, by far the less stressful of these was plant and wait.

That is it really, "grown in = fish safe". It just <"takes away all the guess work">.

Having your water tested in a professional analytical lab. would also <"take away most of the guess work">, but isn't a viable option for (nearly) all of us and there are also issues with storage in transit etc.

Having an analytical lab. next to the aquariums? <"I have it"> would help, but I don't have the time (or expertise, or resources) to do all the testing <"that could matter">, there are just <"too many variables">.

cheers Darrel

 

[hypnogogia]

Not being funny here, but what does 'in time' mean? Are we talking several weeks, several months? Are you looking to grow your plants in, and thats your que to add livestock if any? What about no plants?

What about testing are you doing that at all?

I like the idea of adding ammonia as i can see the results as they happen. Is it not a proven way to cycle?

I would like to get on with the hobby, and not wait a year

It certainly won’t take a year, it patience rewards in this hobby. Plant it up, fill it with water and only measure ammonia and nitrite. When they go up and down again you know you’re making progress. After it’s all cycled, measuring is pointless.

My rule of thumb was always to wait 3-4 weeks after set up before introducing one or two resilient fish. Has always worked for me.

 

[Jaseon]

Well you can add ammonia and it will probably take 3 to 4 weeks to cycle the tank, at this point you can slowly start adding livestock.
Alternatively you can concentrate on plant growth, and once this happens you can slowly start adding livestock, ballpark guesstimate 4 to 5 weeks.

Like I said above I've done fish in cycles, fishless, and plant and wait method, by far the less stressful of these was plant and wait.

I agree all said.

Im still in that old way of thinking where 'cycling' is concerned, and i think im going to stop using the term from now on. The seasoned tank time that Darrel posted makes a lot of sense.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The seasoned tank time that Darrel posted makes a lot of sense.

I think so, but I believe that that <"hasn't been the universal opinion">. It might be a <"jaundiced view">, but I think a lot of the opposition is come from the <"sellers of test kits">, bacterial supplements etc.

..... I actually started writing the "cycling" posts before I knew about the <"Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA)"> and COMAMMOX Nitrospira. I was pretty sure the traditional view of cycling wasn't right, mainly because <"fixed nitrogen"> is a scarce and valuable resource in the natural environment, so it didn't make any ecological sense that the organisms that could utilise it were restricted to a few bacteria, with highly specialised requirements for growth.

An analogy would be that there is a big pile of money in the street, with a note saying "take me", but it is only ever picked up by a one-legged ginger Irish-man on a Thursday......

Until fairly recently scientists <" had no idea that Archaea"> were ubiquitous in the environment, or that <"COMAMMOX Nitrospira"> actually existed, let alone <"that AOA"> and <"COMAMMOX Nitrospira"> were the ammonia oxidising microbes actually found in aquarium filters or that they were only replaced by Ammonia Oxidising Bacteria (AOB) under much <"heavier ammonia loadings">.

cheers Darrel