Paul's 200L, "Punishment of Luxury"

[paul.in.kendal]

Aah, that makes sense Daniel. I'll keep an eye on them and see if it's the leaves that go under that die off. Thanks.

 

[TBRO]

I agree with Daniel. The roots of the frogbit are also a good weather vane of your water quality. In the initial period, during the ammonia spike, the fine hairs on the roots disappear and the roots shorten to little stumps. Once establidhed the roots can get to 20 cm. When it gets going you'll be throwing buckets of the stuff out !

Regards, Tom

 

[paul.in.kendal]

That's really interesting, Tom. I'd noticed that the roots were getting much much longer (the longest main roots are already over 10cms) and much hairier too. Now I know why!

As an aside - I'm not putting any fish in yet, and I'm wondering whether I should be putting in the occasional pinch of fish food, to keep trickling ammonia into the system. Is this necessary, or will I get enough ammonia off decaying plant matter to keep the filter cycle progressing?

 

[aaronnorth]

There are two ways you can go with cycling.

Add 5ppm amonia every day (fishless cycle)

or the other way is a silent cycle by which you should now add about 6 fish (depends on size) and carry out 50% water changes a minimum of 3 times per week.

If you add any ammonia now you will risk algae attacking.

The ammonia being produced by rotting plant matter won't be helping the bacteria much as there is hardly any there to get a good sze colony going,
Thanks, Aaron

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Thanks Aaron - I did wonder how much (or rather how little) ammonia I'd get of decaying plant metter. I've just done another nitrite test and, surprise surprise, it's down to between 0.025 and zero ppm. So I reckon I should get some otocinclus in there (probably five). I'd also like to put some shrimp in at the same time. Dunno whether to go for amano or crystal reds. I'll probably buy mail order, as the nearest decent fish shop is up in Penrith - and I'm not even sure how good they are. Wll otos or shrimp uproot anything - for example rather immature and relatively poorly rooted young plants?

 

[Dolly Sprint 16v]

I'll probably buy mail order, as the nearest decent fish shop is up in Penrith - and I'm not even sure how good they are. Wll otos or shrimp uproot anything - for example rather immature and relatively poorly rooted young plants?

Paul

Otto's are more of a clean up crew and mainly stay on the plant leafs hoovering, occasionly going on the bottom to hoover - they are not a gravel mover. If you are after more variety of fish have a look a Houghton Hall Garden Centre Carlisle get of a J44 M6 and head towards Newcastle, as the motorway bends around just before J44 you can see it on your right hand side.

Too get your tank fish cycled why not buy some cheap neon tetra's - some thing cheap and cheerful.

Regards
Paul.

 

[aaronnorth]

stay away from loaches & plecs and your plants will stay put.
Mind you I think zebra loaches were the first fish I introduced without any problems.

 

[a1Matt]

when buying Oto's check that they have fat bellies. If the bellies are caving in I would avoid buying them. Also acclimatise them really slowly. I drip acclimatise (google those 2 words to find out more ) mine for an hour. Probably overkill but I was getting some dying within a few days before doing this. Now they settle in fine.

 

[andyh]

when buying Oto's check that they have fat bellies. If the bellies are caving in I would avoid buying them. Also acclimatise them really slowly. I drip acclimatise (google those 2 words to find out more ) mine for an hour. Probably overkill but I was getting some dying within a few days before doing this. Now they settle in fine.

100% support what A1matt is saying above, another good tip is to get a few at once. My ottos shoal really well, they all hang together in the tank and appear to very happy when surrounded by their own. So buy 6, to get you going!

p.s Fat bellies are a must! If not my wife would of never married/chosen me!

 

[paul.in.kendal]

I'm now drip acclimatising six Otocinclus Vestitus purchased from North Lakes Aquatics in Penrith (£9.18). My second visit there, it looks like a good shop to me - although as a newbie to fishkeeping I don't really trust my own judgement too highly. The Otos look plump, healthy and active, and about 3cms long. I guess I wont be seeing them for a while once they disappear into the tank.

I also got 12 cherry shrimp. Do these need to be carefully acclimatised, too? They're currently in the dark in an insulated bag - been there for over two hours now.

EDIT: That nice chap Aaron North has just answered this (yes, I should acclimatise cherries) on another thread. So I've just released the otos and started drip acclimatising the shrimp.

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Here's one of the six otos. Unfortunately the only reason I could get a half-decent picture is that he's sitting very still right at the front of the tank. The others are all exploring, as are the cherries, but I'm concerned this one's just not happy. Only time will tell...

 

[andyh]

Here's one of the six otos. Unfortunately the only reason I could get a half-decent picture is that he's sitting very still right at the front of the tank. The others are all exploring, as are the cherries, but I'm concerned this one's just not happy. Only time will tell...

Hey Paul

Wouldn't worry! Ottos can lie in the same place for long periods of time. Wait until they start doing there mad dashes, when spooked they dart around the tank as fast as they can banging into things

Your ten cherries will soon become many, generally to get cherry shrimp to bread all you need to do is add water

 

[a1Matt]

Wouldn't worry! Ottos can lie in the same place for long periods of time. Wait until they start doing there mad dashes, when spooked they dart around the tank as fast as they can banging into things

+1!

Sometimes I wonder if Otos only know two speeds. standstill and full pelt
Of the planted tank 'clean up crew' type of fauna they are my favourites.

Mine quite like to eat organic cucumber (non organic they eat the middle only and leave the skin). That is just one of the many veggies you can feed them.

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Thanks people - the otos seem to have settled in fine. I've now seen all six charging around together, and they all look healthy and happy. During the photoperiod yesterday there was a fair bit of 'gulping' going on, so I've tweaked down the bubble rate and slightly reduced the time period for co2 being on, in the hope they're more comfortable today.

 

[Dolly Sprint 16v]

Paul
Have you sorted you leak yet.

Paul.

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Paul
Have you sorted you leak yet.

Hi Paul - yes, I've been cleaning and greasing the seals each time I open the filter (which is rarely, as it's so massive), and that has stopped it leaking entirely. It seems the leak was down to my lack of experience, rather than gear failure.

 

[tel]

Hey Paul, I have really enjoyed reading through your Journal and seeing how it has developed.
Looking forward to the next update. cheers.

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Hey Paul, I have really enjoyed reading through your Journal and seeing how it has developed.
Looking forward to the next update. cheers.

Glad to hear it, Tel.

I can tell you I 've had a little bloom of hair algae, probably down to a combination of adjustments to the Co2 input and an ammonia spike from the otos. That now seems to be settling down.

Although my HC finally appears to be settling in - it's just about starting to grow sideways - the foreground is pretty denuded in places. I'm starting to think about introducing other plants to fill some gaps - I'd like some anubias barteri nana 'Petite' (aka 'Bonsai'), and perhaps some moss. But I won't be making a rush decision - if you've read this journal you'll know I'm one hell of a slowcoach when it comes to taking the plunge!

I will try and get some pics up - it's all too easy to only take pictures when stuff looks good and skip "warts'n'all" shots of it when things are proving difficult!

 

[andyh]

Paul

Keep it coming the warts and all stuff is what its all about, if its all perfect we would only suspect fowl play!
I have really enjoyed your journal and your deep thoughts To many people post just the glory shots!

Stick with the HC its worth it in the end.

What about some more pics :?:

I can recommend the anubias barteri nana 'Petite' (aka 'Bonsai'), i have some in mine and its really nice. Some people suggested its a slower grower. I have had no problems, new leaves every week.

Just a quick final observation, I doubt the couple of ottos you added to your volume of water contributed to the ammonia/Hair Algae. I would blame CO2 distribution and nutrient flow myself. I have heard amano shrimps like to eat it. Although you have cherries i am sure they will have a go.

 

[paul.in.kendal]

Just a quick final observation, I doubt the couple of ottos you added to your volume of water contributed to the ammonia/Hair Algae. I would blame CO2 distribution and nutrient flow myself. I have heard amano shrimps like to eat it. Although you have cherries i am sure they will have a go.

Interesting, Andy. I find it hard to believe I've got problems with either of those - although I'm not doubting your expertise, of course - how could I?! I wonder whether my shrimp have been pegging out - I only ever see one or two at a time. Sometimes hard to believe there are twelve in there.

These pictures might shed more light - then again...

'orrible HC

"The Horror, the Horror!"

But my Vallis is bouncing around:

Fairly healthy Pogostemon Helferi, Staurogyne and Hydrocotyle verticillata:

Here's my Limnobium from below. It was badly knocked back when the water quality went awry, but it's starting to regrow. The bubbles are trapped beneath an oily film - presumably a symptom of the Limnobium decaying. The bubbles are a mixture of pearled oxygen and Co2 not totally dissolving in the reactor like it used to - another thing that has me scratching my head...

This is the overtank/intank element of the Tunze Osmolator:

And here's the regulator (top right):

Cabinet set-up - the white container is the reservoir for the Osmolator (daft name) - far left is the ferts all-in-one, still being dosed daily by hand (by syringe, actually):

FTS - look at all that bare substrate - and to think I started off with fourteen pots of HC...