Perspective of aquascapes, layout are we doing it wrong...

[milesjames]

So I've become a little obsessed with this... To me the forground midground background plants idea is all wrong...

I'm not sure if it is just me but I feel the idea that people putting the largest plants at the back and smallest at the front only, is sort of counter intuitive for creating depth...

I studied art at uni and currenty teach art, so have worked with perspective/composition for many years. In my experience placing larger objects at the front of a composition creates the best illusion of space/depth.

So why are we obsessed with making sure largest at the back smallest at the front???

Now dutch style which is what I do, does encourage larger plants in the front 2 corners to create the curtain like effect, which does sort of support this. But why not take this further and have larger plants taking over more frontal space....

Its not like an aquarium is 2d so actually you can look around larger plants as you would a sculpture. So in truth you could create far more complex compositions and layers if you put this into practice.

With my most recent couple of scapes I have started to do this, with a varying level of success. The only reason I can think for this not being standard practice is to do with flow issues.

Anyway let me know what you all think, I have attached a landscape picture as food for thought

 

[LondonAquascaper]

I think yes in principle that makes sense but the biggest issue with this is that slapping an echinodorus up against the front glass is going to mean that within a few weeks you're not going to be able to see the rest of the tank.

However, it could be done with hardscape and in my latest shallow I've done exactly that and have a big root quite near the front of the tank, and a carpet of marsilea behind it.

 

[LondonAquascaper]

 

[erwin123]

I studied art at uni and currenty teach art, so have worked with perspective/composition for many years. In my experience placing larger objects at the front of a composition creates the best illusion of space/depth.

Here's an example of the standard 'path scape'

 

[Djoko Sauza]

It is quite standard to place larger plants and hardscape in the foreground and smaller elements towards the back. Pretty much everyone who does contest scapes does this already since it creates a sense of depth (in the photo at least).

Most tanks here are not for contests and thus don't follow this trend.

 

[milesjames]

Excellent example!! Yes I think hardscape used this way is a great way to create perspective.

Great call on the path layout,is an awesome example as well 😊

Glad to see it's not just me who noticed it is almost like its standard practice to use an optic that is unnaturally inversed.

It would be interesting to see what a path way tank would look like with a flat substrate with an intended vanishing point. Or a dutch that fully embraced obscuring plants as part of the layout, beyond that of curtains and pathways.

 

[Nick potts]

the biggest issue with this is that slapping an echinodorus up against the front glass is going to mean that within a few weeks you're not going to be able to see the rest of the tank.

I think this is probably the biggest reason. Artwork is non-changing, an aquascape and plants are living things that constantly change/grow. Most of the large plants used are fast growing and would require near constant trimming or they would hide pretty much everything else in the tank.

 

[milesjames]

Yes I agree with all, some large very fast growing stems would be a nightmare up front. I think the ones that comes to mind for me would be myriophyllum or Limnophila.

But there are some that I'd put up front due to slow growth/fine leaves to see through.

I am currently playing with this in my current tank with having ludwigia white and Ammannia Pedicatella Golden in forground. They are being used to frame the scape though, so not fully embodying what we are discussing.

 

[heliophyte]

Accidentally pressed post here. Let me see if I can delete it

 

[heliophyte]

The important thing with creating the depth is leaf size, not plant size.
The contest scapes use big stem plants in the back sometimes but always with small leaves.
In the front you can have anubias and buces. They have medium sized leaves but stay small so they don't obscure.

Big leaves are hardly used, like echinos or normal javafern (usually trident or windelov).

 

[tiger15]

I think yes in principle that makes sense but the biggest issue with this is that slapping an echinodorus up against the front glass is going to mean that within a few weeks you're not going to be able to see the rest of the tank.

However, it could be done with hardscape and in my latest shallow I've done exactly that and have a big root quite near the front of the tank, and a carpet of marsilea behind it.

Generally, rosette plants have the largest leaves, stem plants have the smallest, and Anubias have variable size leaves depending on cultivar. I placed large leaf echinodorus, crypt and medium leaf Anubisas nana in the front, and small leaf stems in the back to accommodate natural height differences but unintentionally also achieve depth perspective. But hardscape with similar structure has greater impact than plants on perspective. I placed a large bridge in front of a half size bridge and shows a huge impact on depth perspective. If I swap them around they don’t look right and out of proportion.

 

[Ernesto]

Yes I agree with all, some large very fast growing stems would be a nightmare up front. I think the ones that comes to mind for me would be myriophyllum or Limnophila.

I try to give a Limno the front of the stage, probably not for long

 

[Flukeworld]

Except using larger object in front such as stones and roots I found out that good perspective effect can be accomplished by putting large growing stem plants with smaller leaves at the back. For example Micranthemum Umbrosum or Hemianthus micranthemoides which can grow really long but look very tinny because of their small leaves.

 

[Ossie]

I have thought about this in my own tank …
I am going to place a group of tall plants to the far right and left of the front view which allow a good view into the tank through the central part.
I am waiting for the plants to grow in. I hope to post then of successful.

 

[Flukeworld]

I am not sure if the pic has captured the effect, but in reality it looks very deep. It is basically 50 centimeters tall and just 32 deep..

 

[milesjames]

I try to give a Limno the front of the stage, probably not for long

Ernesto you are a braver man than most you will need to be uprooting and replanting to keep that beast from taking over your trimming routine. 😂

On the other hand I look forward to seeing the full tank matured 😊

 

[milesjames]

Except using larger object in front such as stones and roots I found out that good perspective effect can be accomplished by putting large growing stem plants with smaller leaves at the back. For example Micranthemum Umbrosum or Hemianthus micranthemoides which can grow really long but look very tinny because of their small leaves.

I think the broad leaf to thin leaf approach has legs as it will create depth like leaves on a tree effect.

You see the first few leaves up close the rest blend in the rear of your vision. So definitely a way of creating depth for sure. 😊

 

[milesjames]

I have thought about this in my own tank …
I am going to place a group of tall plants to the far right and left of the front view which allow a good view into the tank through the central part.
I am waiting for the plants to grow in. I hope to post then of successful.

Ossie I say definitely go for it curtain plants are used in dutch like this to extensuate depth.

I am still a strong believer in this approach and actually really enjoy adding large bushes to one side so you have to peak around them giving a different view when you move around the tank.

Currently I have a cabomba in this prized position in my dutch scape though it needs time before I'll let it take full hieght given the plants around it. 😊

 

[milesjames]

So all
@Ernesto @Flukeworld @Ossie

I have after much experimentation, discussion and review identified alot of what goes into creating depth in a scape.

Alot is from the Dutch style perspective but applies across the board. I'm busy atm and would like to get my teeth into explaining another day (probably over coffee tomorrow morning).

Feel free to follow the thread and I'll try break down what I've found out since I started this thread a while ago. 😊

Thanks in taking an interest I think the more we discuss these topics the better for all. 😊

 

[Ossie]

Just a quick photo to show that it can work, I originally placed the tall plants at each side to provide cover for the Cardinals but even at this early stage it does provide a greater sense of depth.
The photo does not do it justice but when you look in live it is extraordinary …