Phosphate deficiency?

[MichaelJ]

I was doing calculation for EI daily with rotala calculator, and that is what it recommends.

Its very easy to confuse Nitrate and Nitrogen. Nitrate (NO3) (and Ammonium (NH4) in the case of Tropica Specialized) is the source of Nitrogen. it's the Nitrogen that the plants uses. Nitrate is one part Nitrogen and three part Oxygen - by mass the Nitrogen is ~22.5% ... So if you're providing your plants with 15 ppm of Nitrogen weekly it's equivalent to dosing ~67 ppm of Nitrate weekly - which is a crazy amount especially considering your plant mass and considering your adding it on top of whatever residual N you have in the tank between water changes.

When I was doing 8ml per day I had all kind of deficiency...

Well, your tank is very new being only 6 weeks old - just beginning to settle in and mature. It always takes a while for plants to adapt.

If you're aiming at Full EI (which sounds like your goal) you will be at 4.5 ppm of N weekly (or 20 ppm of NO3 equivalent) with about 6 ml/day. What is your water source? and how much is your WC percentage?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Nikola]

Last twoo weeks I'm dosing 18ml per day to be honest.
I don't know should I go down with ferts, cause plants get used to it and would not like again to lose old leaves on carpet and especially lobelia.
I'm totally in dilemma right now.

 

[MichaelJ]

Last twoo weeks I'm dosing 18ml per day to be honest.
I don't know should I go down with ferts, cause plants get used to it and would not like again to lose old leaves on carpet and especially lobelia.

Perfectly understand. But there is no way your plants will benefit from being dosed 3.5 times Full EI of Nitrogen....

I'm totally in dilemma right now.

My reply above was updated. "If you're aiming at Full EI (which sounds like your goal) you will be at 4.5 ppm of N weekly (or 20 ppm of NO3 equivalent) with about 6 ml/day. What is your water source? and how much is your WC percentage?"

Cheers,
Michael

 

[_Maq_]

I don't know should I go down with ferts, cause plants get used to it

Lysenko's theory, Stalin liked it, but scientists did not. Some of them tried to change their minds in Gulag.
I very much doubt that what you mention as nutrient deficiency actually was that. In about 80-90 % of instances when people ponder nutrient deficiencies there's something else, stronger at play.
I daresay that I'm quite experienced in keeping plants on the brink of malnutrition. Their hunger does not lead to shedding lower leaves, yellowing of leaves, blackening and dying of roots, etc. These are signals of other problems, mostly something to do with oxygen and presence of harmful reduced compounds.

 

[Nikola]

What is your water source? and how much is your WC percentage?"

I'm using tap water which is little bit on hard side. Wasn't measuring recently, but last year was around 14dkh.
I'm doing 50% waterchange every four days with wacuming everything.

daresay that I'm quite experienced in keeping plants on the brink of malnutrition. Their hunger does not lead to shedding lower leaves, yellowing of leaves, blackening and dying of roots, etc. These are signals of other problems, mostly something to do with oxygen and presence of harmful reduced compounds

I totally agree with you, but cause of my lack of experience and fails with plants in the past I decided to go with full EI route to remove nutrient deficiencies from equation and focus on CO2, water flow, light...
Also when co2 is of, air pump is running to give the plants much needed oxygen over night.

 

[MichaelJ]

I very much doubt that what you mention as nutrient deficiency actually was that. In about 80-90 % of instances when people ponder nutrient deficiencies there's something else, stronger at play.

I agree. The tank is 6 weeks old... thats the culprit IMO - nowhere near settled in. To me the plants looks pretty good overall quite frankly. Just dosing a reasonable amount and keeping it stable and be patient is totally what I would aim at. The water is definitely not ideal with alkalinity at the 14 dKH level, but it should be manageable with a little higher dosing, but not 3.5 times full EI.

wacuming everything.

Make sure you do not disturb the substrate.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Nikola]

Just dosing a reasonable amount and keeping it stable and be patient is totally what I would aim at. The water is definitely not ideal with alkalinity at the 14 dKH level, but it should be manageable with a little higher dosing, but not 3.5 times full EI.

What's a good approach now to lower the nutrients but still keep it stable?
Should I start by reducing by 2ml daily dose for one week than next week by 4ml..?

 

[Nikola]

Now noticed first pic which I uploaded (whole aq) and one that uploaded today...actually big progress with carpet and lobelia in 15 days. (I'm giving my self a shoulder tap haha)

 

[xZaiox]

What's a good approach now to lower the nutrients but still keep it stable?
Should I start by reducing by 2ml daily dose for one week than next week by 4ml..?

I'm not sure what the others will recommend, but honestly I would just swap straight to the new dose. The plants will get used to it after a short while. If you prolong the transition then the plants are going to have to continually adapt, and plants like stability. You may notice some changes to the new dosage, you may not. Either way, the new growth will adapt, and you can just cut the tops off and replant them, and discard any unhealthy growth.

 

[MichaelJ]

...actually big progress with carpet and lobelia in 15 days. (I'm giving my self a shoulder tap haha)

Yes, I attribute this to your tank getting established and the plants getting settled in rather than you're over the top dosing. When dialing down the dosing, do it in increments - personally I would cut it down between two consecutive water changes. Just for clarity, Since your dosing 18 ml/day but changing 50% every 4 days your accumulation is not as bad as I might have implied, but you're certainly very high on your current dosing of 2.2 ppm of N daily which totals ~9 ppm between 50% WC amounts or 40 ppm of NO3 equivalent - double the oft quoted weekly Full EI level. Going for 8 ml/day should be more than enough and will make your expensive Tropica Specialized last over twice as long.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Nikola]

Okay, but than if I dose 8ml of tropica specialised I will gain 0.196ppm of iron.
Should I dose Tropica premium to make it up to micros? And what about K? Will be 0.9?
Sorry if I miss read calculator...

 

[John q]

Okay, but than if I dose 8ml of tropica specialised

If you dose 8ml daily you'll get a total weekly addition of this, which imo should be enough without needing to add premium.

 

[erwin123]

Dosing Tropica Premium over and above Tropica Specialised seems to be a waste of money - if you are looking at heavier dosing, you should be looking at other ferts as TSN is designed to be relatively 'lean'.

My 90P tank is 180 litres. I add 2ml (1 pump) of TSN daily, and an extra 2ml after water change every 3 weeks, so 14-16ml TSN per week
I also add:
1 pump (2m) of Seachem Iron a week (and extra pump after my 3-weekly water change)
1 pump (2ml) of Seachem trace a week (and extra pump after my 3-weekly water change) - for Manganese primarily.
A few pellets of osmocote to the substrate every few weeks.

18ml of TSN into a 112 litre tank daily seems excessive unless you have something specific you want to achieve with that level of dosing.

 

[Nikola]

My 90P tank is 180 litres. I add 2ml (1 pump) of TSN daily, and an extra 2ml after water change every 3 weeks, so 14-16ml TSN per week

Hi, would you send me a picture of plants please just to see how they look with that kind of dosing?
I will definitely go lower dose, but my substrate is inert, although I'm adding root tabs, so I will gradually lover it over time and follow how will affect the carpet.
Sorry if I sound stubborn, maybe stupid, but this is first time that my carpet is doing well.

 

[erwin123]

Hi, would you send me a picture of plants please just to see how they look with that kind of dosing?
I will definitely go lower dose, but my substrate is inert, although I'm adding root tabs, so I will gradually lover it over time and follow how will affect the carpet.
Sorry if I sound stubborn, maybe stupid, but this is first time that my carpet is doing well.

Ok, here you go. For this photo, I didn't even add Seachem Iron or Trace. I just got a family member to do 1 pump of TSN every day for 2 weeks while I was away on holiday.

 

[_Maq_]

Ok, here you go.

A collection of particularly demanding plants. Do I gather correctly that your source water is soft?

 

[Nikola]

Ok, here you go.

Okay thank you, your plants are very healthy. Nice one 👌

 

[erwin123]

A collection of particularly demanding plants. Do I gather correctly that your source water is soft?

about gH6, kH3, 100ppm+ TDS.

if water is hard, there was a presentation by Vin Kutty which suggests that lean dosing may be better for if you are keeping software plants like lythracae

 

[hax47]

if water is hard, there was a presentation by Vin Kutty which suggests that lean dosing may be better for if you are keeping software plants like lythracae

Hi,

Is this presentation still available somewhere?

 

[erwin123]

Hi,

Is this presentation still available somewhere?

Root tabs and/or liquid ferts

Having recently been reading into root tabs, what are people's experience/opinion on their use? 2 tanks I'm running have no epiphytes, would it be advisable to do root tabs only, or in conjunction with ferts? I've also heard tropica tabs leave unsightly remnants, do seachem tabs or equivalent...

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