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Plants with Deficiency of something

J

JoãoLopes

Seedling
Joined
28 Apr 2012
Messages
21
Hello,

First, i have to apologize for my poor english. I'm a portuguese guy with a 54L aquarium that i have Crystal Red shrimps. I have some plants of easy maintenance: anubias, ludwigia repens, crypto wendtti brown , vallisneria tiger, Bolbitis, some moss, marsilea hirsuta, cabomba caroliniana but for me is more easier breed CRS than grow up plants!

The pH is around 7.6 and is equal to tap water and i don't have another information because i don't have tests. For some time, i added in tap water a little bit of Mosura Old sea mud powder and a little bit of Decalcit ( is Calcium and Vitamin D3) but actually i have stopped because i think the excess of calcium was limiting other nutrients.
The plants don't grow, turn yellow and lastly melt down. I tried the EI with excel but i don't have any results (adding mosura sea old mud powder and decalcit)and now i'm just changing water with tap water without suplements but adding some KCl and KH2PO4..


60x30x30
36W - PLL
eheim 2211
Substract: akadama

And some photos. . .
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😉
 
Bem vindo João, has Mark says CO2, how much excel are you dosing? Also an all in one fertilizer like Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus would do the trick.
 
Thanks Londondragon, i'm dosing what say in directions, one capful after water change. Isn't enought? i will check the tropica plant nutrition plus, but i prefer the DIY ferts... I have KNO3, KCL and KH2PO4.


P.S. With low c02, wouldn't have algae?
 
JoãoLopes said:
Thanks Londondragon, i'm dosing what say in directions, one capful after water change. Isn't enought? i will check the tropica plant nutrition plus, but i prefer the DIY ferts... I have KNO3, KCL and KH2PO4.

P.S. With low c02, wouldn't have algae?
Click to expand...
DIY is not a problem is your follow the recommended doses read here: http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm
The dosage on the bottle is not really accurate for a planted tank, for a 60 liter tank you need to start with at least 2ml per day of Excel for your tank size, and monitor it over two weeks, if there is no improvement you will need to increase this, ensure 50% water changes are performed every week due to the use of dry salts.

Also keep an eye on the shrimp, if you notice odd behaviour you need to slow down the dosage, you must fertilize the tank on a daily basis as per the EI instructions.
 
I'd add 5 mls of excel per 10 Gal of tank.
Some of the plants look like Nitrogen issues.

I'd dose about 1/4 EI suggestions for this.

Shrimp are more an issue here.

What is the TDS of the tank water? Many try for 150-350 or so.
Adding ferts increases it.
 
Hi all,
I'd agree with "Plantbrain", I'm pretty sure this is nitrogen (N) deficiency, although magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), or iron (Fe) (probably in that order) would be other possibilities. Because the OP knows his water is calcium rich and alkaline, magnesium (and iron deficiency) are more likely.

I'm not trying to be funny, but it honestly can't be CO2 deficiency, have a look at the Lemna minor (Duckweed), it has access to aerial CO2, and it is very pale and chlorotic. That is why I chose a floater for the "Duckweed index", it removes both CO2 and light intensity from the possible factors.

It is just before this point that I add some fertiliser, using the "Duckweed index", from these posts.
<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21003>
<http://87.117.224.40/~ukaps/forum/v...sid=2e21432de8079d0b9f15cdd68cb9f4f2&start=10>
<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20782&start=10>

cheers Darrel
 
Yet he's tried EI still with no good results?....I think too much light for too little CO2, thus driving it too hard with a side missing from the pyramid.

To be fair, there's still not enough info in the tank to comment.

I'm just reading from Clive's hymn sheet here
 
I agree with Darrel I'm certainly no expert but it looks to me pretty much like a multi-deficiency problem. Sorry I can't be more helpful than that!
 
This tank does have multiple problems and one of them absolutely is CO2. Just because the OP is adding Excel it does not mean that he is adding enough, although he might be limited in how much he can add due to the presence of inverts.

There is quite a bit of plant mass there and the OP reports that he dosed EI levels of nutrients without effect. If that is true then this points to a flow/distribution issue. The OP has not indicated his lighting level. If we assume that there has been no recent increase in intensity, and that the same lighting level has been there all along, then this demonstrates that the tank was fine and trouble free using that lighting level, that dosing and that Excel level - until the plant mass reached some critical value, at which point, flow / distribution became disrupted, nutrient/CO2 demand exceeded the rate of delivery and the plants then started to suffer multiple failures. A good trim might also help to resolve these issues along with improvements to dosing and/or flow.

Cheers,
 
Thanks for the answers! 😉


I feed the srimps every day, it is possible they eat the plants in this way?

I will follow your advices for de Excell and EI and do the routine that is in EI Article. Sorry, i don't kown what is TDS, i'm gonna search! 😳

But, i have to say.. In the past six months the plants was in this condition.. And before in other layout, without CO2 and any ferts i had this type of plants without any problem.. it's very weird! what change? Before i have fish and now i only have shrimps!
 
Hi all,
I will follow your advices for de Excell and EI and do the routine that is in EI Article. Sorry, i don't kown what is TDS, i'm gonna search! 😳 But, i have to say.. In the past six months the plants was in this condition.. And before in other layout, without CO2 and any ferts i had this type of plants without any problem.. it's very weird! what change? Before i have fish and now i only have shrimps!
Click to expand...
TDS is "total dissolved solids", and a measure of how many ions are in solution. When you add a salt like KNO3, it disassociates into K+ ions and NO3- ions, these ions conduct electricity, the more ions the higher the conductivity and TDS.

Others won't agree, but I would prune off all the dead leaves and stems and then just fertilize the plants according to the "Duckweed index", and not add Excel or CO2.

The plants you have will all grow slowly in low light conditions with out additional carbon. I like stability and slow growth, and nutrient poor conditions give you this. The only secret then is to fertilize enough to keep the plants in slow growth, rather than totally starve them, which is where the visual clues of the "Duckweed index" comes in. You have Akadama which has a high CEC and can act as a nutrient reservoir, so this approach should be perfectly tenable.

You can think of it as the method you would use to grow Bromeliads, Orchids or Rhododendrons, rather than EI and CO2 which is better suited to growing Tomatoes etc. I think of it like juggling three "balls", light, fertilisers and CO2. EI is a high juggle, and the duckweed index a very low juggle.

Another reason is one that Ceg4048 mentions,that you only have an Eheim 2211 for filtration and flow (perfectly good for filtration, 2211 & 2213 Classics are my all time favourite canister filters), but you don't have the flow to distribute CO2 around the tank, in fact you can see some surface scum in the Lemna picture.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305,

Last time i cleaned the aquarium i removed 90% of lemna minor, she grew massively when the others plants was stopped.

Is this relevant?
 
JoãoLopes said:
Guys, you recomend less number of shrimps?
Click to expand...
Only if you send them surplus to me 😉 I don't see an issue with the number, I have a 60l at the moment with over 600 shrimp, no water changes since December, no problems with the tank or the shrimp.
 
Hi all,

The plants are better in colour, but not in grow. It seems they don't grow :-| i'm using this routine: sunday 50%Wc +10ppm K + 1.5ppm P + 4ml Excel, monday rest,Tuesday 10ppm K 1ppm P + 2ml Excel, Wednesday 2ml Micros, Thursday 10ppm K 1.5ppm P + 2ml Excel, Friday rest, Saturday rest.

The floaters duckweed seems very well with a nice green and multiplies like rabbits! 🙂

Today, i cleaned the filter and the water circulation is much better!



😉


P.S. i don't add nitrogen, because i feed everyday my shrimps with lots of food! I suppose that i have nitrates higher than zero and i'm a little worry about nitrates versus shrimps! What you think?
 
JoãoLopes said:
The floaters duckweed seems very well with a nice green and multiplies like rabbits! 🙂
Click to expand...
JoãoLopes said:
The plants are better in colour, but not in grow. It seems they don't grow
Click to expand...
Suggests then a co2 deficiency for your other submersed plants as floaters have unlimited access to co2, and are using the same ferts in the water via roots. Liquid carbon only lasts 24hrs once in the aquarium so you need to be dosing this every day. Plus keep that filter clean and circulating to the max to ensure good distribution of c02 and ferts :thumbup:
Cheerio,
Ady.
 
Oh, i don't know that. I will change my routine for Excel for 1ml everyday!

Thanks
 
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