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Rams with Apistos?

Karacticus

Karacticus

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2022
Messages
121
Location
Bristol, UK
Just been in my LFS and saw some lovely looking Rams. I have already got a pair of Apistogramma veijita 2, so would it be unwise to get a pair of Rams as well?

The tank is 4ft and nearly 300l and is well planted with a huge piece of bog wood so there are plenty of areas with broken sight. And the tank is stocked with tetra mainly.

Would they cohabit or fight? Views please? Don't want to cause issues, but would love to get some Rams!

Cheers

Mark
 
I think it's fairly unpredictable. The novices in a tank are always at a great disadvantage. Tiny differences in size may matter a lot. And finally, cichlids are rather individual creatures. If they form a firm pair, they can terrorize the remaining staff.
 
I'd personally leave them, ram longevity aside, it would be nicer (for me you may be different) to see if the apistogramma breed and raise some fry before you think about other fish. Sometimes changing the tanks dynamic with new cichlids can rob you of one of life's little pleasures.
 
Okay, thanks everyone. TBH I run my tank at the cooler end, so will maybe give them a miss for now. They are lovely fish, though. And I do want my Apistos to breed. The female is small, but she's already making use of a cave so you never know.
 
Okay, thanks everyone. TBH I run my tank at the cooler end, so will maybe give them a miss for now.
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I second everyones advice on potential aggression issues and temperature, assuming these are blue rams and not bolivian. If you were to raise the temp of the tank to match their requirements, you would reduce the longevity of the apistos, which is likely why you're running the tank on the cooler end to begin with.

Karacticus said:
They are lovely fish, though. And I do want my Apistos to breed. The female is small, but she's already making use of a cave so you never know.
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They can definitely breed at a very small size. One thing that stands out to me is your comment that you're keeping tetras. Most tetras are very efficient fry predators, so not conducive to a breeding tank. That said, there are a couple species (ember tetras, black neon tetras) that others have used in breeding tanks with success. I myself have not tried them.

JeffK said:
Are you sure yours are A. viejita and not A. macmasteri (commonly sold as A. viejita)?
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The OP might not be claiming these are sp. viejita. AFAIK, the terminology "viejita 2" always refers to a color form of macmasteri.

-B
 
brhau said:
The OP might not be claiming these are sp. viejita. AFAIK, the terminology "viejita 2" always refers to a color form of macmasteri.

-B
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Originally, A. viejita II would be the same fish as A. sp. Rotflecken. A. viejita I would be the true A. viejita while A. viejita III would be A. sp. Schwarzkehl.

They look very much alike though. Often, retailers will confuse them or sell them as A. viejita for a higher price, while they're actually a tankbred domestic form of A. macmasteri.

I'd say, when in doubt, it's probably A. macmasteri.
 
JeffK said:
Originally, A. viejita II would be the same fish as A. sp. Rotflecken. A. viejita I would be the true A. viejita while A. viejita III would be A. sp. Schwarzkehl.

They look very much alike though. Often, retailers will confuse them or sell them as A. viejita for a higher price, while they're actually a tankbred domestic form of A. macmasteri.

I'd say, when in doubt, it's probably A. macmasteri.
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Thanks for the clarification.
 
JeffK said:
Are you sure yours are A. viejita and not A. macmasteri (commonly sold as A. viejita)?
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Hi Jeff. Someone commented on my journal to a similar effect to yourself and @brhau. I'm no expert, but that's what the LFS had them down as. Not massively fussed, to be honest. They look great. Picture below. Also, I'm not planning to breed them properly, so I imagine most fry would get eaten but it is a well-planted tank, so you never know.

Thanks again for the advice everyone!

20230326_174255.jpg
 
Karacticus said:
Hi Jeff. Someone commented on my journal to a similar effect to yourself and @brhau. I'm no expert, but that's what the LFS had them down as. Not massively fussed, to be honest. They look great. Picture below. Also, I'm not planning to breed them properly, so I imagine most fry would get eaten but it is a well-planted tank, so you never know.

Thanks again for the advice everyone!

View attachment 203584
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Oh it was by no means a dig towards you or your fish. A. macmasteri are often stunning looking fish, probably better looking than A. viejita in general. Yours looks great.
 
JeffK said:
Oh it was by no means a dig towards you or your fish. A. macmasteri are often stunning looking fish, probably better looking than A. viejita in general. Yours looks great.
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Ha, don't worry. No offence taken. Like I say, I'm less worried about what they're called and more interested in what they look like. So, do you think he's a macmasteri then?
 
He is 100% a macmasteri. I also prefer them to viejita, appearance-wise. I suppose viejita are desired due to scarcity.

To describe its scarcity, a viejita would never be found at an LFS unsold. You would normally need to import them yourself. Or, an importer would be able to quickly allocate all specimens to collectors before they could reach market.

Cheers
 
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Karacticus said:
Ha, don't worry. No offence taken. Like I say, I'm less worried about what they're called and more interested in what they look like. So, do you think he's a macmasteri then?
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Yes, he's a macmasteri. No red edge on the dorsal fin and he has caudal fin extensions. There's more differences but these are often more visible on adult fish.
 
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