Re-scape questions

[DelBoySmiffy]

I'll be re-scaping my Fluval edge on Thursday and have a few questions

Firstly I'll be putting fish and shrimps in a bucket while I do it, they should be fine for a bit right?

Do I keep the media and filter in the water to save time on the cycling? Or should I just get all new stuff? And do I put the old water back in once finished? If so how much and should I top up with treated water or R/O water?

I notice I once again have some black hair algae will that stop me using the old water?

I have co2 via a can ATM as my budget can't go too far will that be OK? Is it needed or can I go without? I have liquid co2 also.

Should I completely top up to the mark line of the edge or leave a gap between the top glass? I know its designed to be topped right up but I feel that affects the circulation a bit

I know the edge ain't great and I know I could cut lid off but ATM the not an option.

Plant wise I'd like something that is easy to carpet at the front half and just past the middle, so a list of plants that will work would be a great help, I will say I have stock lights and I bought myself a led strip light that I have on top of tank but it says it can be submerged.

All help will be very much appreciated.

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Anyone?

 

[Wisey]

I'm re-scaping soon and my plan is to drain about 70% of my tank water to a bucket/bin then transfer the filter over so it is running on the bucket. My filter is also my heater so it keeps the water warm and circulated and the filter is still active during the whole rescape. Fish will move over to the bucket, rescape work will take place, then I believe the best thing to do is to half fill with the old tank water and half fill with new water, so it's just like a weekly 50% water change for the fish, they are not going straight back in to totally different water. Someone else may correct me on this...

I'm not sure on some of your other questions, I don't have any experience of that tank. CO2 will depend on the plants you want to grow, I suggest taking a look at the plant lists on the Tropica website:

http://tropica.com/en/plants/

Anything on the easy list will grow without CO2 as long as you don't blast it with too much light, although they will of course benefit from CO2 and may grow better with it added. The Medium and Advanced plants will require added CO2.

 

[alto]

then I believe the best thing to do is to half fill with the old tank water and half fill with new water, so it's just like a weekly 50% water change for the fish, they are not going straight back in to totally different water. Someone else may correct me on this...

this depends somewhat on how well matched your tank & tap water are & how stable your tap water parameters are day to day, week to week
If I plan major maintenance, I'll increase water change frequency during the week prior - this ensures that tank & tap are similar & I can observe effects of consecutive large water changes on livestock
Evening before, I'll perform 50% water change
Morning of, prepare fish bin with 50% tank water & 50% tap
At this point I don't worry about "preserving" tank water as livestock is acclimated to what is very much like tap - note that it's preferable to keep shrimps separately to prevent any "accidents"

Keep fish in bins in dim light & minimal vibration disturbance (these can be very stressful to fish)

 

[Wisey]

At this point I don't worry about "preserving" tank water as livestock is acclimated to what is very much like tap - note that it's preferable to keep shrimps separately to prevent any "accidents")

Thanks for the info, thats good advice. I only have 3 Amanos, so you think the best bet would be to keep them in a separate small container with 100% tank water and then very slowly acclimate them to the new tank water later? My only problem with that is I can't have the filter/heater working on both containers so they would be without heat and filtration through out the whole process.

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Thanks for advice, I'll do a 50% water change tonight ready for the same in the morning.

What can be used to raise up the substrate at the back of tank so in not just using substrate only? Anything that we keep around the home?

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

I'm re-scaping soon and my plan is to drain about 70% of my tank water to a bucket/bin then transfer the filter over so it is running on the bucket. My filter is also my heater so it keeps the water warm and circulated and the filter is still active during the whole rescape. Fish will move over to the bucket, rescape work will take place, then I believe the best thing to do is to half fill with the old tank water and half fill with new water, so it's just like a weekly 50% water change for the fish, they are not going straight back in to totally different water. Someone else may correct me on this...

I'm not sure on some of your other questions, I don't have any experience of that tank. CO2 will depend on the plants you want to grow, I suggest taking a look at the plant lists on the Tropica website:

http://tropica.com/en/plants/

Anything on the easy list will grow without CO2 as long as you don't blast it with too much light, although they will of course benefit from CO2 and may grow better with it added. The Medium and Advanced plants will require added CO2.

Thanks for the link buddy, very helpful

 

[alto]

Thanks for the info, thats good advice. I only have 3 Amanos, so you think the best bet would be to keep them in a separate small container with 100% tank water and then very slowly acclimate them to the new tank water later? My only problem with that is I can't have the filter/heater working on both containers so they would be without heat and filtration through out the whole process.

That will likely work just fine as well (I'm not much for slow acclimations as livestock are generally obviously stressed in the confined containers - but choose the method you're most comfortable with & just monitor livestock)
Without a filter or heater or air pump, set up container with shallow water volume (& tall sides in case of shrimp adventuring) & keep room temps in the listed range from Nathan Hill's PFK article - lower temp's provide greater dissolved gases (oxygen) in water

Avoid salt, too. Though this chemical is essential for the rearing of larval shrimp, the adults have no tolerance of it and even background levels used as tonics (3g per litre) can be lethal to them. Hardness needn’t be high, but GH should not be below 6° for successful moulting. Temperatures are tolerated between 18 and 27°C/64.4°F and 80.6°F, and fluctuations between day and night largely ignored

Shrimp are much less stressed if moss etc is supplied for clinging & cleaning
Keep temporary tank in area with little traffic as vibrations & shadows are stressors

 

[alto]

Anything that we keep around the home?

not that I have at the ready but small lava rock in tights provides a decent "riser" - not too heavy/dense so water movement/aeration is still decent
I suppose larger gravels would work as well - just look for large air spaces in the way that particles "pack"

Foam particles, vermiculite etc are lightweight & good packing space BUT also grand floaters!

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Got this in the end, is it OK to use just on its own or do I need anything else?

 

[Wisey]

You can use that soil on it's own, no problem. Tropica do say that if you want to you can add a layer of their plant growth substrate below it, but it's probably overkill and also this other layer is a nightmare if you disturb the substrate and it gets in to the water, it goes really cloudy. I'm using the Plant Growth Substrate capped with sand at the moment and I get problems with my Corys digging it up in the shallower substrate areas. The soil alone will be adequate, especially as you would be dosing ferts to the water I assume?

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Yes I will be, only got the tropical premium fertiliser but that should be fine I think. It says only 2 pumps a week for my tank size, will that be adequate?

 

[Wisey]

I have only used EI, so can't help with that question I'm afraid, I would just follow the instructions.

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Get ready for some high tech usage of scaping materials people

The plants around the front will be Staurogyne repens 1*2*Grow, between the rocks will be Eleocharis Parvula and at back are some Ludwigia Repens "Rubin"

May even have the Eleocharis Parvula at sides too.

What needs changing guys? To make it look better?

 

[alto]

May be a bit late for you but Thursday am for me

Do I keep the media and filter in the water to save time on the cycling?

Just rinse media in treated tap water, put aside in plastic bags with a bit of water & lots of air - or damp in a bucket with a cm of water at the bottom & plastic film across top
ie the important part of keeping your cycled media is damp + oxygen (air); media can easily "keep" this way for days/weeks
If the latter, it may need a bit of "wake up" time so 50% daily water changes or monitor ammonia/nitrites etc (I just prefer to do the water changes) for the first week or so
I rarely buy any replacement media for filters, you can rinse & reuse most media for ages - exception is carbon as this has a limited "effective binding" period in aquaria, it will continue to support "cycle" bacteria thereafter, just won't do that "water polishing"

I have co2 via a can ATM as my budget can't go too far will that be OK? Is it needed or can I go without? I have liquid co2 also.

I'm assuming you have the 23l Edge?
this should be fine, it's not the most efficient CO2 release etc but will certainly support "Easy" plants - most plants appreciate additional CO2 (gas)

Liquid CO2 always has an anti-algae effect (as in discourage, but needs to be spot dosed at strength to (possibly) eradicate some algaes - beware of shrimp effects when dosing at these levels), some plants are efficient at utilising this sort of carbon course: dose daily at bottle suggested levels

Should I completely top up to the mark line of the edge or leave a gap between the top glass? I know its designed to be topped right up but I feel that affects the circulation a bit

Does it? or is it just your perception ... it may alter flow path but won't affect actual flow rate of pump
Most Edge set up's I've seen, are filled to capacity BUT if you have fish that like to surface & "gulp" air (anabantoids, cory's) or if fish are ill, then having that 1-2 cm's of air between water surface & glass is preferred
Note that Edge with stock lighting grows "easy" plants well, & a few "medium" plants - ambient lighting can have a significant (positive) effect with low light aquaria (so I'd keep my Edge out of the dim corners )

I know the edge ain't great and I know I could cut lid off but ATM the not an option.

I've seen some very nice scapes done in Edge tanks

I bought myself a led strip light that I have on top of tank but it says it can be submerged.

Unfortunately these sort of lights are really just designed for fish viewing, intensity/lumens are very low & not that useful to plants
Turn your Edge light on in a dark room & you should be able to see where most of the intensity/light falls
At some point you may wish to replace the stock light with the 46l Edge version - I believe this fits & will double your light output (check price though compared to other sorts of additional LED lighting) BUT then you may need to upgrade your CO2 as well

Ludwigia Repens "Rubin"

For Edge size & lighting, I'd likely use
Ludwigia Palustris re smaller leaf size & vibrant red color under even low lighting

 

[alto]

Yes I will be, only got the tropical premium fertiliser but that should be fine I think. It says only 2 pumps a week for my tank size, will that be adequate?

This depends on plant load & growth rates & water parameters (to some degree) - initially plants are transitioning over to submerse growth & nutrient leaching from soil is at it's highest level ...
follow the Tropica 90 day App
There is a lot of information on the Tropica site that is very well designed - text is clear & concise, with accompanying photos & video
L palustris
S repens
etc, note that there are also some plant handling videos buried within layout videos (not sure these all have separate links - Mick.dk would know)

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Wow thanks for all the input, all taken on board. Yes it is the 23l, I have read about upgrading lights to the 46l version but think I will hold off to see how it all beds in first.

 

[DelBoySmiffy]

Starting it all tonight and tomorrow morning, gonna be messy taking out all the substrate and wood but hopefully worth it.

Anyone got any suggestions on the easiest way to break dragon stone into a couple of pieces, don't want to ruin it.

 

[alto]

This is where that top glass of the Edge makes things a bit more challenging

I don't recall what you have for substrate, but a length of large bore tubing can efficiently syphon out sand, small gravel, aqua-soils ... just make sure you monitor the water level in your bucket
(I have a Python system so just use a 6-10 length of that tubing, internal diameter is maybe 19mm, clear is nice as you can monitor what goes in ... including surprise shrimps & fish )

 

[Wisey]

I have broken up dragon stone with a hammer and stone chisel, but warning, it splits where it wants to split naturally, not where you might want it to split. It's quite soft and easy to break up even just hitting with a hammer (eye protection advisable), but you kind of have to just hit it and see what you end up with.

If you need any more I have about 18 KG of the stuff which I am about to put up for sale in the next week or so!