Reactor questions / how long is a piece of overthinking?

[Hufsa]

If I've mis understood, and @Hufsa is creating this as a separate loop with its own pump, then as you say @Hanuman I'd probably rather use an over specified speed controllable DC pump and avoid the extra plumbing.

Yeah im planning to run the CO2 loop independently of the filtration so I can get really steady flow. So thats why I got a 5500 L/H adjustable pump. Without being dragged down by a canister filter it really should be overkill enough I hope.
What I was looking for though, is to use this CO2 loop to provide the main flow for the tank, so I dont just have to take the flow through the reactor into account, I also want to get the flow in the tank itself where I want it. I find theres a relatively fine line between "seriously solid flow for optimal high tech planted tank" and "too much washing machine, not very nice for critters". I want to be able to adjust this without compromise.
This would be one of the main points for having a bypass, separating reactor needs from tank circulation needs.

 

[Wookii]

Yeah im planning to run the CO2 loop independently of the filtration so I can get really steady flow. So thats why I got a 5500 L/H adjustable pump. Without being dragged down by a canister filter it really should be overkill enough I hope.
What I was looking for though, is to use this CO2 loop to provide the main flow for the tank, so I dont just have to take the flow through the reactor into account, I also want to get the flow in the tank itself where I want it. I find theres a relatively fine line between "seriously solid flow for optimal high tech planted tank" and "too much washing machine, not very nice for critters". I want to be able to adjust this without compromise.
This would be one of the main points for having a bypass, separating reactor needs from tank circulation needs.

Sorry, I must have missed that bit.

How will you be filtering the water before it hits the pump/reactor, or wont you?

 

[Hufsa]

I was planning to let my eheim canister filter deal with filtration tbh, and getting rid of the ultramax so that im just running one canister and one pump with reactor, instead of two canisters.
Im still trying to figure out how I will prevent sand from getting to the pump, since my sand is extremely fine and gets kicked up easily. Ive even contemplated swapping the sand for something a bit coarser.

I need something easy to maintain on the filter intakes, ive been happy with fine stainless mesh as it keeps all but small particles out of the filters, and the flat surface means that in normal circumstances the otos, snails and shrimp eat the stuff stuck to the mesh, keeping it cleaner for longer. With a sponge, stuff gets stuck out of reach from my cleanup helpers, and therefore tends to clog faster.

 

[Wookii]

I was planning to let my eheim canister filter deal with filtration tbh, and getting rid of the ultramax so that im just running one canister and one pump with reactor, instead of two canisters.
Im still trying to figure out how I will prevent sand from getting to the pump, since my sand is extremely fine and gets kicked up easily. Ive even contemplated swapping the sand for something a bit coarser.

I need something easy to maintain on the filter intakes, ive been happy with fine stainless mesh as it keeps all but small particles out of the filters, and the flat surface means that in normal circumstances the otos, snails and shrimp eat the stuff stuck to the mesh, keeping it cleaner for longer. With a sponge, stuff gets stuck out of reach from my cleanup helpers, and therefore tends to clog faster.

Yeah, you definitely don't want any fine sand particles getting into the pump, that'll shorten its life rapidly. I'd personally want some fairly fine sponge pre-filtering ahead of the pump. Any reason you can't keep the redundant canister filter in line ahead of the pump even if it is empty other than its built in pre-filter?

 

[bazz]

Im still trying to figure out how I will prevent sand from getting to the pump, since my sand is extremely fine and gets kicked up easily. Ive even contemplated swapping the sand for something a bit coarser.

Morning Hufsa,
I'm really struggling with this one, surely having the intake nearer to the top of the tank, installing a SS filter guard (or foam) and doing maintenance when the CO2 pump is switched off will be enough to keep the sand at bay?
Leaving the Filter inlet close to substrate to scavenge any detritus.
Unless of course your sand has the same consistency as Calcium Sulphate.
Cheers!

 

[Hufsa]

Yeah, you definitely don't want any fine sand particles getting into the pump, that'll shorten its life rapidly. I'd personally want some fairly fine sponge pre-filtering ahead of the pump. Any reason you can't keep the redundant canister filter in line ahead of the pump even if it is empty other than its built in pre-filter?

I definitely could, I thought it would eat too much of the flow but theres no harm in trying it to see how big the effect is.
Could even empty out the Eheim and use that one as a lightly loaded prefilter, since the Ultramax is a lot bigger (holds much more filtermedia but probably eats more flow just based on size)

I'm really struggling with this one, surely having the intake nearer to the top of the tank, installing a SS filter guard (or foam) and doing maintenance when the CO2 pump is switched off will be enough to keep the sand at bay?
Leaving the Filter inlet close to substrate to scavenge any detritus.
Unless of course your sand has the same consistency as Calcium Sulphate.

Hehe its not quite as bad as calcium sulphate, its 0.1-0.5 mm sand so about as fine grain as it gets for aquarium use. The really simple choice would be to have the intake halfway up the wall. Im so greedy on functionality though 😅, so Im twisting my little brain-parts trying to figure out how I can get the detritus from all the way down on the bottom without the risk of sand damage. Prefilter of some kind where the sand could settle out (like an empty canister) would allow that 😊

This thread is rapidly turning into "Hufsa overthinks plumbing while concerned citizens watch", but I really appreciate the input I have gotten so far and hope you all can bear with me for a little while longer 😊

 

[bazz]

Im twisting my little brain-parts trying to figure out how I can get the detritus from all the way down on the bottom without the risk of sand damage.

As I said above, you are still going to utilise a filter which can be set up to scavenge from the bottom.
You don't really want any form of detritus (or sand) entering your CO2 loop.
Or am I missing something?
BTW I enjoy being part of your musings 😉🙂

 

[Hufsa]

As I said above, you are still going to utilise a filter which can be set up to scavenge from the bottom.

The other intake is on the opposite side of the tank though,

You don't really want any form of detritus (or sand) entering your CO2 loop.

But that is a very good point! I dont actually want detritus in the CO2 loop, I failed to think about that. I wanted some flow in that bottom corner (below the CO2 loop intake) to stop stuff from settling there, but that could be arranged in other ways. And since im not a huge fan of cleaning aquarium plumbing, I should really want to get as little detritus in this loop as possible. Unless I put filtration in the symbolic/prefilter/sandcatching canister, at which point I will have to maintain that filtration as well, and possibly maintain it even more thoroughly than I maintain the other filtermedia..
See this is exactly why I love sorting this stuff out with input! 🥰 🤩

BTW I enjoy being part of your musings 😉🙂

Thats really comforting to hear, sometimes I am not sure if I am the beloved town oddity or more of a bothersome one

There are quite a few overthinkers in this world

I love finding old threads where some other overthinker has already done the overthunking, and then I can just coast off of their results.
So if this thread helps just one other in the future in addition to getting my own reactor sorted, then ill be super happy 😄

 

[bazz]

👍🤣

 

[Hanuman]

For what it’s worth I clean my reactor every year or so and it is inline with my canister. The truth is it doesn’t really need cleaning. I only do it to check that all the fittings and parts are intact. Last cleaning I noticed that the co2 tubbing I used inside the reactor had cracks everywhere so I replaced it with some rigid pvc tubing instead which seems to be much more resistant to acidity.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I can attest to the comments made in regards to the reactor and flow. I too have a cerges, but I took @foxfish ‘s advice and used the bottle technique. High flow is definitely not what you want because it will push the bubbles out too quickly instead of mixing them properly to dissolve. For reference, I have a 100gph pump dedicated to my 10” reactor, with only maybe 7” of head height and two 90 degree bends before the flow pushes down on the CO2. I STILL have bubbles escaping from the bottom, but not nearly enough to make me want to mess with the system. At the end of the day, as soon as the co2 cuts off, within minutes the co2 has all but completely dissolved. No bubble buildup, no noise, no complaints. I have a high injection rate since I have a sump and I make a point to have good surface agitation to keep oxygen high as well.

 

[Hanuman]

I can attest to the comments made in regards to the reactor and flow. I too have a cerges, but I took @foxfish ‘s advice and used the bottle technique. High flow is definitely not what you want because it will push the bubbles out too quickly instead of mixing them properly to dissolve. For reference, I have a 100gph pump dedicated to my 10” reactor, with only maybe 7” of head height and two 90 degree bends before the flow pushes down on the CO2. I STILL have bubbles escaping from the bottom, but not nearly enough to make me want to mess with the system. At the end of the day, as soon as the co2 cuts off, within minutes the co2 has all but completely dissolved. No bubble buildup, no noise, no complaints. I have a high injection rate since I have a sump and I make a point to have good surface agitation to keep oxygen high as well.

I too have some bubbles escaping but that's because I didn't really bother sizing everything and calculating flow etc etc. I just did it free style. I'm not bothered by the bubbles as they remain minimal and I know that most of the CO2 is dissolved in the reactor anyway. My previous inline diffuser was 50x worse and the tank looked like a soda bottle that you just opened.

 

[LondonDragon]

What do you think about the layout for the bypass? Also happy to hear input from anyone else too, just grabbing hold of whoever I can with experience 😁

Bit late to the party, but on the reactor side on the left if you add another tap then you can easily remove it for cleaning without having to make a mess, the reason I don't clean mine as often as I should 😉

 

[Hufsa]

Bit late to the party, but on the reactor side on the left if you add another tap then you can easily remove it for cleaning without having to make a mess, the reason I don't clean mine as often as I should 😉

Not too late at all 😁
The filter housing was delayed, so I held off on ordering fittings in case the plans needed changing for a different housing.

So you mean a valve(?) where this arrow points?



On the topic of the reactor in general;
I got the replacement filter housing yesterday, the original housing turned out to be a different product that had been mistakenly placed in the original's box, and that was the only one they had of that model.
They offered me a replacement housing that would work for my needs, and sent me this more expensive one for the same price as the original, which I thought was quite decent 😊
So the filter housing I ended up with is Spectrum Aqualyze 20" Housing Clear 3/4" Ports. Essentially all the same features except this one doesnt have any brass parts, which is nice for perfectionist reasons

🚨 Warning: Glorious overthinking below

Now that I have the final housing I can take some measurements 🤓
The inner diameter all the way down on the bottom is ~8 cm.
I think this measurement may differ a bit from brand to brand, all of them will of course be big enough to accept a standard filter cartridge but how much extra room they have on the bottom could be different.
I dont know for certain but based on pictures it looks like it might be the case. The Spectrum brand seems like one of the more tapered ones I have seen online.
Im interested in this measurement since Plan A is a Foxfish style internal setup with a bottle.
I dont know what it is about that setup but I really like it.
It seems like a very elegant solution to keep the bubbles in motion while also keeping them from getting too far down.
There will probably be some trial and error but I am willing to go to some effort to get it working for me.
I think the noise of small bubbles may be preferable compared to larger bubble noise from for example the Yidao DIY internal venturi.
To see how big of a bottle I can use without compromising flow, im taking the area of the 8cm circle (~50.2 cm2), and subtracting the area of a 2.5cm circle (~4.9 cm2).
This latter measurement will be akin to my pipework inner diameter, and makes sure that I dont get a flow reduction from things being too narrow around the bottle at the bottom.
(The internal diameter of the pipework wont really exceed 2 cm, but I added a little extra allowance)
So this gives us ~45.3 cm2, meaning I should safely be able to use a bottle with an outer diameter of 7.6cm.
The inner diameter of the housing is probably slightly different a couple of centimeters up, but not even I care about THAT much precision.

So ive made a little measuring template and im gonna start bringing it to the grocery stores so I can inappropriately touch bottles until I find a suitable one.
Now thats the kind of public weirdness I can really get behind 😎
The average 1.5 liter bottles are too big and the 0.5 liter bottles are a bit small.
I wanna see if I can find something with a suitable neck shape thats between those, to get the most reduction in water velocity for my money.
We're not playing at CO2 reactor here
I'll also probably need to use the midsection from more than one bottle in order to get it far enough down in the filter housing, but ill figure something out.

Now that I have got a feel for the 20" housing in person I dont think I will need a bypass. This thing is LONG.
With the right bottle (possibly rounder neck bottle if flow is too high), I think I might be able to get it balanced without a bypass.
Ive actually taken the Jebao pump into use already with some temporary(inefficient) plumbing, and based on how its running now I dont think there will be a problem where I need more flow/circulation intensity in the tank itself.
The pump is currently running at the 16% setting (or 40 watts, the display is a bit confusing) and the flow in the tank is much better than before.
So it seems I wont need to run the pump very hard in order to get the flow in the tank where I want it.
Not having a bypass will uncomplicate things significantly. Although im still thinking about some valves and quick disconnect fittings so maintenance will be relatively easy.
Im not planning to clean it more than once or twice a year hopefully, but making maintenance easy where possible is always good I think.

Ive taken a look at the head of the housing to see what my options are for CO2 entry. I may have gotten lucky because on this model there are four ~5mm tunnels that are used for attaching the housing to a bracket, and these go almost all the way down through the head. Inside the head, the plastic below the tunnels is nice and flat, although the size of any washer would be limited by the outer ring. So thats option 1. Option 2 would be going directly down the middle, but this would put the CO2 pipe right in the middle of the flow. This might be less preferable, because of quantum flux turbulence in the plasma current and whatnot.


The head has three voids that arent really useful and could trap water/air, they are closed off horizontally from the exit by reinforcing walls.

Im considering trying to close these off in some way in order to clean up the design a bit (mostly because I feel like it)
I need to look into if theres a glue that will bond the head material (Polypropylene) to whatever material I could close them off with.
My SO can currently only 3D print with PLA, I think the printer needs a closed warm box to print in ABS or something like that.
PLA is considered ok for aquarium use but it is starch based and breaks down over time, so dont think that will be a good fit for something permanent.

What he can print however, are some custom external hose bends that I can put on the outside of the hoses leading to the filter housing 😃
That way I wont have to waffle about with finding the most gently bending hose elbows and can just get normal hose attachments
Something like this but just scaled up perhaps

But anyway thats it for a shortcough-hark post about my reactor project ..for now

 

[LondonDragon]

Not too late at all 😁
The filter housing was delayed, so I held off on ordering fittings in case the plans needed changing for a different housing.

So you mean a valve(?) where this arrow points?

Exactly, so you can fully bypass the reactor even with the filter on, and you can easily remove it to clean! bonus