Really struggling...

ceg4048

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James, Isn't that GSA on photos 10 and 6? If so then PO4 is also suspect no? PO4 and NO3 are coupled such that low PO4 causes a decline in NO3 uptake. I'd add both. I'd agree about CO2 and Mg.

Cheers,
 

JamesC

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I did think about PO4 but I've really limited PO4 and it doesn't produce those sorts of results, but does slow growth as it reduces demand for NO3 and CO2. As long as some PO4 is added daily it should be OK, but possibly if PO4 is extremely low then it could cause stunting.

Normally for that type of stunting I'd blame CO2 and then NO3 with a possibility of Mg. Also high lighting can be a cause. Lower it and see if the plants improve.

James
 

plantbrain

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Generally problems with plants if the person follows ADA, PPS, EI etc, is not the method's fault.
CO2 and light are the main drivers when you use CO2 and higher light.

The method cannot do it's job unless you have good CO2 and reasonable light intensity.

So you should always start there.
All these methods add plenty of ferts, one way or another.
And folks have troubles with algae pretty much the same frequencies.

CO2 is quite the issue for 95% or more of all algae related issues I've fielded over the past decade.
Folks kill their fish with it, not nutrients.
Folks mess it up, cannot measure it for the life of them accurately.
Yet some carry on about testing things like PO4 or K+, etc.

I've seen nasty rash of BBA in ADA tanks, in PPS tanks, in EI tanks and in non CO2 tanks as well when things like CO2 where not considered correctly.

Focus 95% of your efforts there.
Clean, water changes, dose Excel and prune.
If you add the right amount of CO2, plants grow like weeds, so you can prune/clean your way out most any algae issue.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Aeropars

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Thanks for the responses guys. Answer to some questions:

JamesC said:
That's stunting you have there. Caused by a shortage of one or more of the macro's - Carbon, Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium or Phosphorus. Looks unlikely to be phosphorus or calcium unless your water is very soft. This leaves carbon, nitrogen and magnesium to look at.

Suspect one is CO2. Do you have good water and surface movement along with a nice lime green colour drop checker?
Suspect two is NO3. Try adding a tad more and see if there is any improvement. A good sign of NO3 limitation is when some green plants start to get a red tinge as they near the surface.
Suspect three is magnesium. Do you add any or do you know if you have Mg in your tap water. Adding about 8-10ppm weekly should be fine to rule this out.

James
CO2 could have been one and probably still is for the moment as I'm trying to get to the levle of co2 I need without relying on the PH electrode to switch the co2 off when it hits the target PH.

Water movement should be good with my two filters, one being ultra powerful for my sized tank so the plants are always swaying at the bottom.

I do add Mg in MGS04 but only in the amounts in the PPS solution.

plantbrain said:
Generally problems with plants if the person follows ADA, PPS, EI etc, is not the method's fault.
CO2 and light are the main drivers when you use CO2 and higher light.

The method cannot do it's job unless you have good CO2 and reasonable light intensity.

So you should always start there.
All these methods add plenty of ferts, one way or another.
And folks have troubles with algae pretty much the same frequencies.

CO2 is quite the issue for 95% or more of all algae related issues I've fielded over the past decade.
Folks kill their fish with it, not nutrients.
Folks mess it up, cannot measure it for the life of them accurately.
Yet some carry on about testing things like PO4 or K+, etc.

I've seen nasty rash of BBA in ADA tanks, in PPS tanks, in EI tanks and in non CO2 tanks as well when things like CO2 where not considered correctly.

Focus 95% of your efforts there.
Clean, water changes, dose Excel and prune.
If you add the right amount of CO2, plants grow like weeds, so you can prune/clean your way out most any algae issue.

Regards,
Tom Barr
Thanks for your input tom. its certainly possible of co2 which i'm currently working on. The drop checker shows green but its difficult to see if its lime green.
 

beeky

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If increasing/lowering CO2 causes a corresponding drop/increase in pH, then wouldn't maintaining a stable pH maintain a stable CO2? I thought this was the reasoning behind pH controllers?

Of course this is assuming the pH controller is set so the desired pH is what it would be with 30ppm of CO2.....
 

JamesC

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beeky said:
If increasing/lowering CO2 causes a corresponding drop/increase in pH, then wouldn't maintaining a stable pH maintain a stable CO2? I thought this was the reasoning behind pH controllers?
That's the theory, but in practise it doesn't work. pH can change due to other factors like wood, nitrates, gravel, etc. pH controllers need recalibrating quite often as they tend to drift. They work by adding CO2 to a preset pH and then stop the CO2 flow until a different preset pH is reached when they turn back on again. This causes CO2 levels to go up and down all day. Get a fault in the probe, connetions or controller and you could end up with gassed fish very quickly.

Best and safest way to add CO2 is with a steady flow through the whole day. The only good thing about pH controllers is that they can be used as a safety control in case of a CO2 tank dump.

James
 

Aeropars

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One thing I forgot to ask is about the photo below:





Whats the deal here? The vallis new growth and blyxia growth are very similar. It looks like its green spot but its not. Its actually the colour of the leafs!
 

GreenNeedle

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Thats the natural pattenation of the 2 plants you have.

The val is : Vallisneria Spiralis 'leopard'

Nothing to worry about there

Andy
 

Aeropars

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The valis is actually valis nana. Before thes problems though it grew a bright green, the same colout as it was when I bought it. Same with the Blyxia.
 

Aeropars

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Its certainly a new development although i'm not sure if it is only happening on 1. I cant remember off hand. It was tropica post it came from so i'm a little bemused to how it would have gotten in there if it was another species.

Incidentally, i'm wondering if my fortunes are turning. The Blyxia is starting to show new growth with a more vibrant green on it. Perhaps i'm turning a corner!
 

Ray

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Aeropars said:
Incidentally, i'm wondering if my fortunes are turning. The Blyxia is starting to show new growth with a more vibrant green on it. Perhaps i'm turning a corner!
Could be - if you think the CO2 and dosing is up to scratch as discussed in this thread then you now you need to be patient - improvement often only shows in new growth and it can take 2 or 3 weeks to see the benefits...!
 

Aeropars

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Hi Guys,

A bit of an update.

Growth has started all over although i'm getting more green spot appearing all over the tank so today I modified my solution and doubled the amount of PO4 by adding 3 grams of Mono Potassium Phosphate to the remaining 500ml of PPS solution.

The blyxia has vibrant new growth although its only the tips as the stems rotted from where it melted before and i only have tips poking out the sunstrate now. DO you think this will be ok? The parts I have planted do have roots but they are so small they look about the same size as my e. tenillus
 
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