Revolving media basket wheel thing.

[DefconWombat]

Bare with me on this one.
As a mechanical fitter/tech/engineer person, I have a natural habit to make things completely over complicated and probably unnecessary a majority of the time.
I’m currently in the process of building my new system, this time with a first for me, a sump.
My original plan with regards to media was to go with a fluidised set up with something like K1. However I’m trying to make the whole system as quiet as possible so I started to lean towards a conventional “static bed”. Only problem I can see is the sump I have isn’t a labyrinth style. The water passes from one chamber to the next via grates and windows so it will just flow over the surface of the media bed.

Possible solution.
Create a free spinning vented drum packed with media, mounted horizontally with some neat little vanes so as the water flows it will rotate like a water wheel. This should insure that all the media gets a feeding whilst still being relatively silent.
Would having the top of it break the water surface have any benefits/consequences to bio health???

Thoughts on a postcard greatly welcome.

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

Hi all,

Is it just a tank divided by crates? If so, you could put a sock on the inflow to the sump if you need to make it quite, then place a sponge one or 2" thick 30 PPI flat against the crate. Another chamber you could fill up with pumice, or use another type of sponge this time 45 PPI, making sure sponges are sticking out over the water level.

Regards,

Kris

 

[DefconWombat]

Hi all,

Is it just a tank divided by crates? If so, you could put a sock on the inflow to the sump if you need to make it quite, then place a sponge one or 2" thick 30 PPI flat against the crate. Another chamber you could fill up with pumice, or use another type of sponge this time 45 PPI, making sure sponges are sticking out over the water level.

Regards,

Kris

Hi Kris.
Thanks for you time and input.
Mechanical filtration (in the first instance) is going to be handled by an X-filter fleece roller so that should all be ok.
No issue with using pumice as a media, its the placement which is being problematic.
I could fill chamber two to a large depth with it and fit a grate on the partition between chambers 1-2 to stop it falling out. But because there is not forced flow through at the bottom I’m concerned that a stagnant layer will form.

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

Hi all,

You could use 10mm+ grade pumice, placed in media bags and stashed up, making sure that the bag's holes are not too small. 1-2mm, available on Amazon/eBay... But if you are worrying about the flow, then be sure you shouldn't. As prefilter do not use fleece, as it's too fine, for that purpose and you will need to change it very often. 20 PPI sponge will be sufficient for that purpose, or sock, but it will need to be rinsed frequently.

Regards,

Kris

 

[Wookii]

Hi all,

Is it just a tank divided by crates? If so, you could put a sock on the inflow to the sump if you need to make it quite, then place a sponge one or 2" thick 30 PPI flat against the crate. Another chamber you could fill up with pumice, or use another type of sponge this time 45 PPI, making sure sponges are sticking out over the water level.

Regards,

Kris

+1 to this - keep it simple and just use some blocks of foam cut to size to pressure fit between the front and rear walls of the sump. Easy to remove and clean as required.

 

[_Maq_]

Would having the top of it break the water surface have any benefits/consequences to bio health???

Definitely YES. What the microbes need most is oxygen.

As a mechanical fitter/tech/engineer person, I have a natural habit to make things completely over complicated and probably unnecessary

I can understand your enthusiasm, but - as long as your tank is not overstocked - biological filters are unnecessary. You could target your attention to something else, though. Mechanical micro-filtration is generally underestimated in this hobby. Still, I believe its benefits could be substantial. You can combine it with activated carbon and, as a bonus, UV-lamp chamber.
That would be the filter of my dreams. I have attempted to build such a thing this summer, but, unlike you, I'm pretty weak in all mechanical/electric/etc. jobs.

 

[LMuhlen]

Regardless of the necessity of doing something overly complicated, I did like your idea of a rolling mechanism for static media. Making it break the water surface is a great plus as well. I do worry, however, that the constant roll of the media would be a bit noisy and, even worse, would cause constant erosion which would generate some sort of thin ceramic powder. It could be that if you compact it well enough, these issues would not exist, but as soon as some erosion starts, it should get progressively worse.

 

[DefconWombat]

Mechanical micro-filtration is generally underestimated in this hobby. Still, I believe its benefits could be substantial. You can combine it with activated carbon and, as a bonus, UV-lamp chamber.

This sounds interesting. Any more details on what you managed to achieve?

 

[DefconWombat]

Regardless of the necessity of doing something overly complicated, I did like your idea of a rolling mechanism for static media. Making it break the water surface is a great plus as well. I do worry, however, that the constant roll of the media would be a bit noisy and, even worse, would cause constant erosion which would generate some sort of thin ceramic powder. It could be that if you compact it well enough, these issues would not exist, but as soon as some erosion starts, it should get progressively worse.

Thinking is to pack as tightly as possible.
Also if I use the EA K1 media it’s plastic and designed for fluidised reactor beds so would in theory hold up to any abrasion.

 

[DefconWombat]

Bit of playing on CAD today whilst busy at work.
Test piece all drawn to be made from four parts. If I’m clever I should be able to tweak it to two common pieces repeated.
Sent first piece of to the printer. And will be ready in 23 hours.
Once assembled will give me a chamber 200mm diameter x 400mm long.

 

[dean]

Look up Drum Filters
They are the latest must have on koi ponds

Can you remove the existing dividers in the sump so you can make the water flow under / over so it has to go through all the media ?

What will power your drum ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Krzysztof 82 (Kris)]

Hi all,

Take a look... Nice, simple and working

 

[DefconWombat]

Look up Drum Filters
They are the latest must have on koi ponds

Can you remove the existing dividers in the sump so you can make the water flow under / over so it has to go through all the media ?

What will power your drum ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could remove the dividers and change the whole layout but that would involve getting new glass cut.
As for power, I’m hoping I can get it positioned nicely so that the flow through the baffle plates will turn it (think water wheel). If I’m really lucky I may be able to lower or raise its height to change rotational speed.
If that fails I’ll blahblahblahblah some gearing in and run a stepper motor or something. Got plenty of them lying around.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My original plan with regards to media was to go with a fluidised set up with something like K1. However I’m trying to make the whole system as quiet as possible so I started to lean towards a conventional “static bed”.

Floating cell media is <"still pretty effective"> when it is stationary. Have a look at <"7. Aquarium Filter Media">.

Personally I agree with @Wookii and @Krzysztof 82 (Kris) and I'd just use <"PPI 20 sponge"> and <"floating cell media">, and you don't a large volume of <"floating cell media">.

Also if I use the EA K1 media it’s plastic and designed for fluidised reactor beds so would in theory hold up to any abrasion.

It does break up over time. This is partially why I've gone to using <"Eheim Coco-pops"> etc. they are more physically stable over time.

Would having the top of it break the water surface have any benefits/consequences to bio health???

It would, it will increase the nitrification potential of the filter by an order of magnitude. <"Rotating contactors"> are used in waste water treatment particularly in the USA. <"A Review of Rotating Biological Contactors for Wastewater Treatment">.

Definitely YES. What the microbes need most is oxygen.

That is the one, oxygen is the prime metric in nitrification, everything else is <"just froth">.

cheers Darrel

 

[DefconWombat]

Hi all,

Take a look... Nice, simple and working View attachment 212008

Love it Kris. However you have a labyrinth baffle set up so the water flows up (or down) each chamber. Mine simply passes left to right

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I’m hoping I can get it positioned nicely so that the flow through the baffle plates will turn

That is really how K1 type floating cell media works, each piece is a little individual water wheel and rotates in the flow. If you have a relatively small volume of K1 type media it is going to work whatever the configuration of the sump is.

The Americans like Penguin BioWheel type filters <"https://www.amazon.co.uk/MarineLand-Penguin-Power-Filter-70-Gallon/dp/B0009IMDQM?th=1">, they've never really caught on in Europe. They revolve and have an aerial phase. I've never used one, but I would expect they work OK.

If I was trying to deal with large bioloads, my weapon of choice would always be a planted wet and dry trickle filter. The "My venture........." thread is from 2010, <"but if it aint broke? Don't fix it">:

<"My venture into my new 760 ltr planted tank .">.

cheers Darrel

 

[DefconWombat]

Hi all,

That is really how K1 type floating cell media works, each piece is a little individual water wheel and rotates in the flow. If you have a relatively small volume of K1 type media it is going to work whatever the configuration of the sump is.

The Americans like Penguin BioWheel type filters <"https://www.amazon.co.uk/MarineLand-Penguin-Power-Filter-70-Gallon/dp/B0009IMDQM?th=1">, they've never really caught on in Europe. They revolve and have an aerial phase. I've never used one, but I would expect they work OK.

If I was trying to deal with large bioloads, my weapon of choice would always be a planted wet and dry trickle filter. The "My venture........." thread is from 2010, <"but if it aint broke? Don't fix it">:

<"My venture into my new 760 ltr planted tank .">.

cheers Darrel

Many thanks Darrel.
A lot of interesting info you’ve put up for me. 👍🏻

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Many thanks Darrel.

I've had the good fortune / ill-fortune to visit a <"lot of landfills"> and <"sewage works">. Not everybody's idea of a good day out, but it gets you thinking about what is important and what isn't.

cheers Darrel

 

[_Maq_]

Take a look... Nice, simple and working

This. This is a classic example when a skillful person believes in what filter/media manufacturers advertise. I daresay it's completely unnecessary for a planted tank. Probably even a bit harmful as it works like a trap for iron and phosphorus.
It works? Of course it works because if it were empty and simply making the water move, it would work just as well.

This sounds interesting. Any more details on what you managed to achieve?

I've attempted to employ cylindrical mechanical pre-filters designed for reverse osmosis. These can catch particles down to 1 µm in size, possibly even smaller. I've learned that such a design requires pressure. I've ended up with an impractical assemblage of components which was noisy (and leaking, anyway). So I gave up. I'm better in theory than in practical solutions.

 

[DefconWombat]

That’s the first half done.