Round indoor pond project queries.

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by sciencefiction, 16 Sep 2016.

  1. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

    Messages:
    3,310
    Hi All,

    I am back with an exciting new project to start near term and I have a few questions.

    I'd like to set up an indoor round pond as per the picture below.

    et-eco900optp-500x500_zpsdigan59n.jpg

    The container has a diameter of 125cm, 73 cm tall and holds 900l of water. It is a potable container made from polyethylene.

    It will hold all my current fish which is a bunch of corydoras, 7 clown loaches, 5 khuli loaches and lots of shrimp if they don't get all eaten. It will have lots of emersed plants pots on the perimeter and some underwater plants. The light will be simple flood led held by a gooseneck.

    I won't see much of my bottom fish with this setup but I prefer them to be as happy as can be.

    My question is, what's the best filtration for a round container of this size and how would one set it up to benefit the system in the best way? Currently I own 3 external filters and multiple internal filters ranging between 2000l/h to 1000l/h. I also own a 1250 pump and 2500l/h powerhead.


    Do you think my clown loaches will be happy in there long term?

    Will clown loaches eat kuhli loaches?

    Would two 300W heaters be sufficient?

    Would 30W flood led as per the specs below be sufficient for emersed tropicals or should I go higher?

    http://www.ledkia.com/uk/buy-ultras...tml#/colour-temperaturecool-white-6000k-6500k

    Are there any risks I could run into with this type of setup?

    Any other ideas are welcome, setup wise, planting wise, substrate, light, etc...

    Thank you all for reading and any help is welcome.
     
  2. Greenfinger2

    Greenfinger2 Member

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    4,198
    Location:
    Enfield London
    Hi Sciencefiction, An indoor pond. Why not just set up a tank and do the pond in the garden.

    Looking forward to seeing this. Clown loaches as far as I know will not harm Kuhli loaches. In a pond I don't think you will ever see them though :(

    I use that lighting over my tanks Great works well and cheap :thumbup:

    Others will now more about the other stuff

    Good luck with your project :) Following
     
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  3. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    3,310
    Hey Greenfinger2. Thanks so much for your reply.

    I won't go into details because I am ashamed to say it. I had another fish disaster 2 months ago. My clown loaches and corys are in plastic tubs of 80-150 litres right now. am never getting glass tanks again.
     
    Greenfinger2 likes this.
  4. Alex J

    Alex J Member

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    Location:
    Leeds west yorkshire
    Hi, interested in seeing how this develops. I have kept 10cm clown loach with Amano shrimp without issue, though you don't say how big your clown loach are or what kind of shrimp you plan on keeping them with.Given the correct conditions clown loach usually grow fairly quickly up to around 12 to 15cm then slow down and as i'am sure you are aware can potentially reach 30cm they can also live for many years, maybe 20+ so they are a real long term commitment, one concern is that your pond is not big enough to successfully sustain them long term, kept in unsuitable conditions they can become stressed and their growth stunted.The other is that clown loach should only be kept in a mature fully cycled tank,and can become very stressed in an immature set up with an almost guaranteed case of ich following swiftly behind:(. good luck with your new venture, looking forward to up dates :)
     
  5. zozo

    zozo Member

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    6,313
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Sorry to hear you have so much bad luck with glass tanks.. :(

    But very interesting idea to do this indoor and tropical with such a tub.. :) How you filter it and heat is will work the same as a 900 litre aquarium, you only need to figure out same different ways of installing it. And in a round bucket you can't create to much horizontal flow, it will be a constantly circling edy, best is the bring to flow up from the bottom so it wirls up like a wel from bellow. Even beter and much more natural if you plan to use floaters like lilies (because the hate flow) is create a helophyte filter.. Then take a (oval fits best) plant basket like this
    vijvermand-contour-45-x-18-x-15-cm.jpg
    Hang it to the inside top of the tub and fill it with a coarse inert substrate like Alfagrog and top it off with a decorative small gravel.. Put plants in and let the prefilter (canister) outlet seeping on top of the gravel into this basket.. Like this you only need some prefilter sponge as this will be your biological filtration. It also will create the best natural flow in the round tub and since it's low tech it wont need so much flow. And this will filter the water crystal clear and never needs cleaning only need to clean the prefilter sponges. You need to be carefull if you plan to replant it, a filter like this shouldn't be disturbed, if you do it will wash out a lot of what it collected into the water. Carefully plant it with hungry perennial plants and leave it be filtering, beter is never to disturb it if you do do it outside the tub and rinse it out clean.

    Once setup the things you might run into on the long run is the tub is rather high 73cm and since you can only view from the top you wont see much of whats going on in there. So you wont see any debri buildup on the bottom easy. Especialy if you use a dark substrate then you also wont see much of the fish, most of them have a darker ridge on their back for camouflage purpose, in an aquarium you mainly look at their flanks than this camou ridge is barely noticable. For maintenance purpose and viewing fun from above it is best to use a light colored substrate to see the debri buildup and syphon it out. With a dark substrate you just never see this debri and don't know where to clean.

    For the rest this will work the same as an open top low tech tank you just can't see through. :)
     
  6. alto

    alto Member

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    4,146
    I doubt there's any reason for shame on your part - commiserations of whatever disaster fell your way

    Depending on present size of your clowns, the 125cm "length" may be more/less suitable (I'm sure you realize that 180cm x 60 cm is recommended as the smallest tank to consider for a group of clown loaches - I just mention this for other readers) ... I'm not convinced that a 125cm round tank "works" as well as a rectangular tank (greater length) with similar surface area, certainly the flow characteristics will be rather different.
    Unfortunately you'll have limited viewing of the fish so will just need to see how it goes.

    Clown loaches will eat smaller tankmates, I suspect given a sand substrate, the kuhlis will be relatively safe, the Cory's may be less so (again depends on relative sizes)
    I'd expect shrimp predation, also just stress from the setup - which unfortunately you'll not be able to easily monitor
    (I'd keep the shrimp in a separate tub)

    Sorry not very helpful :oops:
     
  7. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    3,310
    @zozo

    I've had the clown loaches for four years. They were moved 3 times in the last 2 months, from the broken tank to a small plastic tub, to a larger plastic tub. They were moved a year ago again from one broken tank to another.. Poor things....
    The tub runs with all the external filters that used to be in the tank. I'll also transfer these same filters to mini pond so hopefully I won't need much cycling. The clowns always lived with the corydoras and don't seem interested in eating other fish yet. Also, they've been living with cherry shrimp for the last year, tons surviving them. I am not sure why they don't eat them all. They did eat all the snails. I suppose when the clowns get bigger that may change. But the biggest now is around 8 inch.
    The new tub will be 900litres, nearly 240gallons. A 180*60*60 is 640 liters. Volume wise the fish will have plenty to grow. The question is the shape.
    Ideally I'd let it run with plants and filters only for a couple of months first but that means my fish will stay in a 140 litre tub longer.

    @alto

    I've been reading that round containers are the ideal shape for fish tanks and that's why they are used in fish farming. That's where I got my idea from. I am going to have to see how true that is. I am aware of the minimum clown loach tank size recommendation but it doesn't seem my clowns will ever get a glass or any tank of that shape and size. I will know by the loach behaviour if its fine or not. They come up for food when not stressed. One still eats from my hand. Currently they don't....in a 140 litre tub..

    @zozo

    That's a great idea zozo. I just have to find those baskets you showed in the pics but I'll definitely incorporate something like this.


    I am not worried about not seeing the fish. I probably won't see much of the corys and the khulis but the clowns come up for food in the morning and race a lot up and down when at their best. The substrate will be white sand cap on top of soil and I will have strong light on top. That should help with the viewing. Eventually I'll get some surface feeders to keep me entertained.
     
  8. zozo

    zozo Member

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    Location:
    Netherlands
    I do not know your budget and aslo not how much space you have available, or have the skills for it..But if it where for indoor purpose and pond like i personaly would rather go for a custom pond made out off plywood standing on legs like a table make the water body a bit more shallow and then you could even incorporate a glass panel for viewing fun. Wood is very easily sealed with the nowadays epoxies and glass fiber cloth, silicone adheres perfectly to it to build in a glass panel if you would like that. Many peeple who are into very large tanks, rather go plywood than complete glass tanks, because it is much easier to customize. Most issues people run into building this and have negative experience is not taking pressure in account but build 60 or 70 cm high tanks. Then construction is vital because pressure is rather high.. But if build shallow like 40 cm there aint so much pressure and much less stress to take in account and then it's much safer to build.

    The glass fiber cloth drained with epoxy will create a glass hard watertight and inert layer which is very durable and stronger than glass and even surviving an earthqauck if the base material is constructed solid enough. Just an idea and it would give you much more frredom in choosing and customizing dimensions. And it doesn't need to be so expensive. :)
     
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  9. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    Hey zozo, great idea but I've got zero skills so I need to buy something made. :)
     
  10. alto

    alto Member

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    4,146
    Have you looked at some of the oval footprint "ponds" - or do they have those locally? - this might fit better in-home & should put some length back in for the clowns

    I observe fish generally swimming lengths rather than circles ... not that they don't swim circular patterns as well: I transfer fish between 90x45x53(H) tank & 60x45x53(H) tank, the cories almost seem happiest in the 60cm, but the various rasboras & chocolate gouramis definitely prefer the longer tank (& none of these fish are more than 5 cm)

    Farm "stock tanks" often do an oval design & most are quality plastic rather than metal nowadays.

    You could even do a mini water fountain at one end :D
     
  11. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    3,310
    Hey alto. Thanks very much for your suggestion. I thought about that too. But the circular shape is a self supporting shape and can be setup standalone. The oval or rectangular ponds need to be either buried underground or re-enforced in some way. They are risky otherwise.

    I am hoping that the 4f width will compensate for the length being less than ideal. . To be honest, for the 4 years I've had the clowns they did not race the tank length as much as you read online. They utilize it only when spooked which is probably why the length is suggested. Reduces the stress when they try to run away from their "fears" that are mostly in human form :). What my clown loaches do is "play" up and down in a vertical sort of swim. They do that for hours every day and they have kept that routine for all the years I've had them. There's an old video below from their first tank. That's basically what they do for 90% of the time they are outside of their caves. That's the "I am hungry" dance...:)

     
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  12. Greenfinger2

    Greenfinger2 Member

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    Hi S/F, Great video of the clowns :)Wonderful looking fish I Love them and they eat snails :cool:
     
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  13. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    Two years later from the above video just before it broke, same side of the tank, same corner..For some reason they loved that corner, lol. The glass is curved and they loved that. I never saw them racing the back normal corner.

     
    Last edited: 17 Sep 2016
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  14. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    Thanks greenfinger. I really hope that they make it till I setup the new tank. Hopefully I'll order it end of next week but it will take some time to set it up sufficiently to move the fish over.
     
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  15. Greenfinger2

    Greenfinger2 Member

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    4,198
    Location:
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    Hi S/F they look fab and healthy fish :cool: Hope all go's well with the new tank mate :thumbup:

    Ho Ps please call me Roy ;)
     
  16. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    3,310
    Ha, ha. I will, sorry :banghead: :lol:
     
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  17. alto

    alto Member

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    4,146
    take a look at the "stock tanks" then - they are all designed to be free standing ... sorry I've no idea on what your local costs might be

    :lol: your clowns obviously have their own ideas of suitable play :lol:

    A round tank for them, it is then :D
     
  18. sciencefiction

    sciencefiction Member

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    3,310
    He, he, alto.

    Thanks. Stock tanks look great if there was anywhere to buy them from here...Is the poly-tuf material inert for fish? The drain plug is also a worry.
     
  19. alto

    alto Member

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    4,146
    They don't all come with drain plugs (those cost extra ;) ) ... here any place that carries "Rubbermaid" can bring in a stock tank (as R is one of the manufacturers), they are required to be "food safe" in order to be equine safe (check with livestock supply places as to availability/costs)
     
  20. Nelson

    Nelson Member

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    Norfolk

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