S.repens melt......spreading

[Saurav215260]

Started a new set up on 22nd Aug ( 8 days ago)
Tank specs:
45P (45x28x30)
CHihiros vivid2 RGB mini running @ 42% intensity
PH--7 (CO2 off) ....6.4 (@ CO2 saturated levels...2-3 hrs post injection)
KH--2
TDS---RO water with seachem equilibrium dosing to achieve 120-130 TDS
Also adding Alkaline/acid buffer mix to get my KH upto 2 (using seachem dosing calculator for my tank volume)
CO2---Qanvee inline diffuser @ 1 bubble/2 seconds

Fertlizer---Tropica specialized--2ml daily for 5 days(Water change @ days 5 ,50%)
ADA ECA plus---0.1 ml(1 drop)...for last 3 days
Easy carbo bio------1 ml every other day

Substrate----Aquario NEO soil...with lava chips under soil capped with ADA bacter100/clear super & easy life root sticks(5 or 6)
Hardscape---Frodo stone (approx 3~4 kg)

Cycled the whole set up as dark start for 2.5 months. After multiple confirmations on ZERO ammonia/nirtite planted TC cups of plants namely:
L.brasilensis
Helanthium tenellum broad leaf
El. Montevidensis & E. Acicularis mini
Crypt Axelrodi & crypt lucens
LObelia Cardinalis
Rotala H'RA
S.repens

s.repens after 3 days started wilting showing signs of chlorosis.Leaves turning white & melting away.
And the rot looks contagious ,i.e, spreading to the adjacent s.repens.I did trim the rotting leaves as soon as i saw them but does not help.
NO signs of algae till now but is frustrating to see it melt away everyday.
Montevidensis which is an easy plant has also turned brown...but waiting on it to show any significant melt
If any of you folks have witnessed such event, please let me know of any remedy that I at this point might not be looking at.

Cheers & thanks

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Can we have a photo?

KH--2
TDS---RO water with seachem equilibrium dosing to achieve 120-130 TDS
Also adding Alkaline/acid buffer mix to get my KH upto 2 (using seachem dosing calculator for my tank volume)

I wouldn't add that much <"Seachem Equilibrium"> or any <"pH buffers">. Have a look at <"Alternative to Seachem Equilibrium ?">.

<"Seachem are">, at best, <"disingenuous with their advertising"> and their advice has much more to do with selling you a product, rather than helping you have a successful planted tank.

s.repens after 3 days started wilting showing signs of chlorosis.Leaves turning white & melting away.
And the rot looks contagious ,i.e, spreading to the adjacent s.repens.I did trim the rotting leaves as soon as i saw them but does not help.

We just don't know. Tissue cultured plants are quite delicate, <"What about In Vitro plants?">.

Have you got any <"floating plants or stems"> you could add in the short term? They aren't CO2 limited and will already be adapted to aquatic life.

Cycled the whole set up as dark start for 2.5 months. After multiple confirmations on ZERO ammonia/nirtite planted TC cups of plants namely:

I'm guessing that the tank is probably still biologically immature, have a look at <"seasoned tank time">. Personally I'm not a great fan of ammonia based cycling, have a look at <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Simon Cole]

s.repens after 3 days started wilting showing signs of chlorosis.

@_Maq_ Have you seen this before? I'm sure mine just melt without chlorosis. Was the plant suffering before it became infected?

Easy carbo bio------1 ml every other day

@_Maq_ Also, what do you think about glutaraldehyde being present? I would have guessed that it would have prevented melting infections. Thanks

 

[Ria95]

I suspect the Aquario substrate to be similar to ADA Amazonia. Based on that, frequent, daily or every other day, 50% water changes for the first week or two may help reduce the melting you see on S. repens. Improving the circulation in that area will help as well. You can also uproot some , at least you will have something to start with again once the tank establishes. And yes remove the damaged leaves as soon as you see damage forming.

Other than that, i would leave out the Bio Easy carbo algaecide for now. The light is likely way too powerful for this stage of the tank, 20% maybe still up there. CO2 may need some improvement as well. It's unlikely any of these 3 things made S. repens melt but will help the tank overall if they are sorted out now.

Cheers
Ria

 

[_Maq_]

@_Maq_ Have you seen this before? I'm sure mine just melt without chlorosis. Was the plant suffering before it became infected?

@_Maq_ Also, what do you think about glutaraldehyde being present? I would have guessed that it would have prevented melting infections. Thanks

Yes, I've seen that in one instance: Rotala indica. They got yellow approx. 24 hours before melting. I can't recall any other cases of such sequence of events; other species just melt.
By the way, my R. indica don't grow, over two months already. I suspect very much that you were right when suggesting they were treated with some plant hormones. They hold well but don't grow a bit, and then one day they quickly die. (I'm going to try non-TC R. indica, but only after I receive and settle electricity bill! I'm a poor guy. I fear it'll be hard...)

I've considered using glutaraldehyde myself, but never tried in the end. Too afraid. I've tried potassium sorbate, but it (1) didn't work, and (2) white bloom appeared. So, sorbate seems to be just a delicacy to my microbes, I'm afraid. Acriflavin proved to be much more efficient, for a while. It can hit hard the fungi, algae, and bacteria; I can confirm it even visually because various biofilms and 'spider nets' disappear within 24 hrs. Yet I don't dare to dose it repeatedly, and melting usually resumes a few days later, after acriflavin gets decomposed.
Similarly, a big water change helps partially and temporarily. Yet for me it's rather complicated to change much water day after day because I use only RO water.

In @Saurav215260 's case I don't dare to suggest acriflavin, not to damage evolving microbial community. Changing water, over & over, that's my only suggestion.

Simon, what do you think of using benzoate?

 

[Simon Cole]

@_Maq_ Thanks for sharing your results. I would imagine that the beta-ketoadipate pathway utilised by water moulds (Oomycetes) etc. would result in any benzoate being catabolized long before it reached toxic levels, so I do not think it would work. The chemical treatments for water moulds (Oomycetes) seem to have been really well researched, and unfortunately I did not see a benzoate salt listed amongst them. Of the chemical treatments available, none of them looked remotely suitable, except <chlorine> (tap water) perhaps. I am starting to think that the "contagious spreading" is via the hyphae of these water moulds and not the necessarily spores themselves, because these events are usually highly localised; and I'm beginning to view UV treatment as a less favourable option for this reason. I think hobbyists will need to come around to the idea of using chlorinated water (tap water) during in-vitro planting, whether or not this results in some damage to the wider microbial community, unless they have the option of waiting for an established microbial balance as suggested above. The browning of certain plants in this tank to me almost implies that ABA was used during culturing to get the stomata to shut, and that they simply haven't reopened yet (in certain plants) - also leaving them susceptible to pathogenic infection while they remain dormant. I'm looking forwards to some photographs.

 

[_Maq_]

@Simon Cole , I'll check whether I've made some good pics of my troubles. But until then - you've mentioned chlorine. What about hydrogen peroxide, also a potent oxidizer? In fact, I've attempted to fight moulds by it already. My results are not promising. I suspect it kills everything, namely plant tissues which have been damaged already, and the pests (whichever they may be) resume attack soon thereafter.
(And perhaps we'd better move our discussion here? How to improve resiliency of in-vitro plants? )

 

[Simon Cole]

@_Maq_ Sorry, lazy typing. I'm after a few photographs from @Saurav215260. I would have thought that hydrogen peroxide would be fairly excellent, it could be used in a syringe and injected into the surrounding substrate. No problems moving discussion. I was thinking of recommending chlorine (or peroxide) to the thread starter if they have a few photographs showing the problem, but I'm guessing that it might not solve things if ABA is involved.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

........ Of the chemical treatments available, none of them looked remotely suitable, except <chlorine> (tap water) perhaps. I am starting to think that the "contagious spreading" is via the hyphae of these water moulds.....

I think that is right, we <"have a couple"> of <"Pythium ("damping off disease")"> related threads.

The chemical treatments for water moulds (Oomycetes) seem to have been really well researched

<"Late blight"> (Phytophthora infestans) of Potato is an Oomycete, and famously difficult to treat once the plants are infected.

I remember one of our <"lecturers in Bangor"> talking about this and saying that late blight had to be treated with a "prophylactic", which caused much hilarity, as it was a word we only knew of in a slightly different context, where it also provided "protection".

cheers Darrel

 

[Libba]

Ivan Drago had a great quote: "If he dies, he dies."

Don't stress over it. Just let it melt and see what happens. It might grow back. It might not. Life finds a way.

 

[Simon Cole]

I remember one of our <"lecturers in Bangor"> talking about this and saying that late blight had to be treated with a "prophylactic"

I saw some of the experiments on potatoes that Richard Shattock was probably involved with - at Bangor University Henfaes Farm, just before he left. On a side note, I wonder whether we have finally found a use for <EHSA Gastroplex> because copper sulphate <still> seems to be rather effective against oomycetes - I know "Bordeaux mixture" was rather popular in the past for terrestrial "prophylactics" , but I do not know the aquatic ppm target yet. If I find anything I'll add it to the <How to improve resiliency of in-vitro plants?> thread.