saintlys "The Henge"

jay

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Definitely inspirational. I only just received the 2008. Never got any other before, ordered an AquaJournal also.
In Japanese but..... I like the pretty pictures :D
Rally liking the Yamaya stones on page 22 of the catalogue, Never done an iwagumi set up but want those stones for a 1st.
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

yeh great catalogue. try and get the 06 version. try AE. ive also got nature aquarium world book 1. some of the scapes in there are like 17/18 years old and are just stunning. realy good read too! :D
 

jay

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Got the Three books,love em! Truth be told I prefer the old scapes with the black backgrounds, compared to a lot of todays
super clean tanks. Except for Iwagumi styles. The crisper the better.
Will have to check that 06 catalogue out mate.... Think I'm going to buy new tank tomorrow, If I get some time. :D
This journal has been quite inspirational.
 

George Farmer

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Looks like the painstaking HC planting paid off, Mark. Well done!

You just need a nice cabinet to tidy it all up now... I can highly recommend the AE cabinets that can be built to you own colour spec etc. TGM also do some nice Aquariums Ltd. cabinets that are very nice, with piano laquer finish etc.
 

Ray

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

I like this tank a lot Saintly, its a really lovely scape. Tell me about the photography, you seem to know what you are about. You have one spotlight for backlight and another frontlight? How many watts are they? If moving the tank out into the middle of the room were not an option how would you do the backlight?
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

George Farmer said:
Looks like the painstaking HC planting paid off, Mark. Well done!

cheers george. yep the hc's growing in lovely now.

i started a dosing regime yesterday. ive read in the 06 ADA catalogue that amano recomends and i quote

"after one week, we advise to supply liquid fertilizer for suppliment micro elements and pottasium so that the plants forms healthy burgeon and submersed leaf"

so im adding tpn.. not the plus.

now im not sure which "k" to add. is it k2so4? there all k!....... come on EI users help me out. anyways after just 24hours of dosing micros it seems very evident that all the plants have taken on a new tone in green...much more vibrant.especialy the e tennelus. i just wish my p helferi would do something or just show signs of growth. :?

Ray said:
Tell me about the photography, you seem to know what you are about. You have one spotlight for backlight and another frontlight? How many watts are they? If moving the tank out into the middle of the room were not an option how would you do the backlight?

hi ray, the pics that you see use just a 500w tungsten bulb hnce the orange colour(i can get rid with raw) ive got 2 but i used just the one. im in the process of practising techniques really.
i also used a cheap old blanket for the background.

when it comes to the final thing i'll hire some studio flash heads. ive got to get hold of some good quality white paper. im reckoning it would be best to "bounce to flash heads off the white backing.
similar to what you would use in a studio. set the flash so it gives you the ability to use iso 100 or on a 5D iso 50....with an F-stop of 16 for pin sharp. when using white background this gives you the ability to meter for the pklants etc... knowing that everything else behind the scene will be white (overexposed) which is what you want.

if you look in the ADA catalogue 06 page 18 you'll see what i mean. amano has 4 heads facing away from the tank.typical studio shot with white background.

i personly would love to take a tank into a studio and try it. ive done it with people, never a tank :D a logistical nightmare, but im making in roads to the idea.
 

Ray

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

saintly said:
hi ray, the pics that you see use just a 500w tungsten bulb

Thank you for the long answer. I don't have that catalog but I think I know the image you mention -just can't recall where I saw it... So do you just get a normal Ikea spotlight and slap a 500w bulb in or do you buy something special?
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Ray said:
So do you just get a normal Ikea spotlight and slap a 500w bulb in or do you buy something special?

well it was specifacly for photography, although not quality lighting its ok for black and white stuff. you certainly could emulate the same kind of lighting. when it comes to the pro range of lighting, you pay big bucks for that.
this is why i will hire/rent pro equimpment flasheads etc.

i used to own some top end gear but i got rid of most of it, when i decided to stop trying to earn money at photography. allthough my passion for photography has been re-ignited again trying to capture the beauty of a planted aquarium.
 

ceg4048

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

saintly said:
i started a dosing regime yesterday. ive read in the 06 ADA catalogue that amano recomends and i quote

"after one week, we advise to supply liquid fertilizer for suppliment micro elements and pottasium so that the plants forms healthy burgeon and submersed leaf"

so im adding tpn.. not the plus.

now im not sure which "k" to add. is it k2so4? there all k!....... come on EI users help me out. anyways after just 24hours of dosing micros it seems very evident that all the plants have taken on a new tone in green...much more vibrant.especialy the e tennelus. i just wish my p helferi would do something or just show signs of growth. :?

Hi,
EI users don't typically agree with Amanos recommendation because we refuse to get devoured by the Great White ADA Liquid Fertilizer Shark. His recommendations are based on the hunger of the marketing machine , not on reality, as clearly evidenced by P. helferi's refusal to grow.

In any case, if you wanted to add K without adding NO3 or PO4 then K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate) is an excellent choice. Your assessment is correct in that the K in KNO3 and KH2PO4 is exactly the same K as contained in K2SO4, however K2SO4 adds K without adding Nitrogen or Phosphorous which violates EI principles unless your tap water is sufficiently high in these elements.

Cheers,
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

saintly said:
Your assessment is correct in that the K in KNO3 and KH2PO4 is exactly the same K as contained in K2SO4, however K2SO4 adds K without adding Nitrogen or Phosphorous which violates EI principles unless your tap water is sufficiently high in these elements.

thanks ceg, the quote was from one of amanos journals and im guessing that these are the first few steps in his dosing regime.i dont think he employs this method full time.

and in the first 2 weeksof anew setup surely you wouldnt dose full EI? isnt that asking for trouble?

so you would say that the k im looking for is k2s04?

would you say that my p helferi could just trying to get established?

thanks for replying mate.
 

ceg4048

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Hi saintly,
Well, I always have to preface my remarks by acknowledging that I am a fanatic. I can guarantee you that when setting up a tank, within 350 microseconds of the water level reaching the top I dose full EI and sometimes 2X EI depending on lighting conditions. I don't see any reason at all to be half baked. Nutrients don't cause algae - ever. The problems in a startup tank are the high levels of ammonia produced by unbalanced NH4 levels exacerbated by high lighting. This calls algae spores to the table at which time they feast and produce blooms.

The way to mitigate this is to do frequent (2X and 3X per week) massive (70%-90%) water changes and to use half lighting, not half nutrients. :wideyed: This directly removes NH4 as well as algal spores and lowers the photon flux density which algae are much more able to exploit in the beginning. Of course, with a lowered lighting level you could justify lowering the dosing, but I attempt to force feed the plants by having high nutrient concentration levels which accelerates their uptake and metamorphosis into the submerged state. I've never had a problem using this method except for diatom algae for the first couple of weeks. Lowering the light some more tends to get this algae out of the way more quickly. Naturally, all this requires massive CO2 injection since high nutrient load creates high CO2 uptake demand (and vice versa).

Cheers,
 

Ray

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

saintly said:
and in the first 2 weeksof anew setup surely you wouldnt dose full EI? isnt that asking for trouble?
No, its fine because nutrients do not cause algae, ammonia does. Your plants might be stressed when you get them, best to start dosing right away - healthy plants will not leach ammonia and will actually help remove some from the water column, defficient plants will leach ammonia which will trigger algae.
Of course, Ammano uses Aqua Soil which is so loaded with nutrients that he can get away with waiting a week before starting lean dosing due to the massive leaching that occurs on start up. Also I think the ADA fertilizer scheme is quite lean compared with EI - not to say its worse, but you have less margin of error.
 

George Farmer

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

ceg4048 said:
Nutrients don't cause algae - ever.
You should write a PFK blog on this, Clive.

BTW, it's worth noting that NH4 is a nutrient, so be careful... ;)
 

Ray

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

George Farmer said:
ceg4048 said:
Nutrients don't cause algae - ever.
You should write a PFK blog on this, Clive.

BTW, it's worth noting that NH4 is a nutrient, so be careful... ;)
You are right George, he should - that could be the title too :D
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

again thanks for the reply,

ceg4048 said:
Well, I always have to preface my remarks by acknowledging that I am a fanatic.
it's good to see :D

the whole "aquascaping" thing is making me the same way.

im using only half of the availble lighting so im half way there.i think even if i used all of the lighting potential, it'd be too much.

i just wonder why amano only doses micros and k in the first stages...i know that EI works! ive seen the evidence. maybe because he has such a nutrient rich substrate?

ceg4048 said:
The way to mitigate this is to do frequent (2X and 3X per week) massive (70%-90%) water changes and to use half lighting, not half nutrients

i fully understand. i do 2 x waterchange at the moment

i'll keep my eyes on things and see what happens.

thanks again for the detailed reply :D
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

woohoo, 3 replys while i was writing mine :lol:

now im getting confused :? dose?..not dose?
 

ceg4048

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Ray said:
George Farmer said:
ceg4048 said:
Nutrients don't cause algae - ever.
You should write a PFK blog on this, Clive.

BTW, it's worth noting that NH4 is a nutrient, so be careful... ;)
You are right George, he should - that could be the title too :D

Hey, great idea :idea: - but would anyone reading it even listen, or would they just write it off as ramblings of a nutter? Sometimes I feel like John the Baptist shouting in the wilderness... :rolleyes:

I'm going to designate NH4 as the planted tanks version of E. bola... :p

saintly said:
...i just wonder why amano only doses micros and k in the first stages...i know that EI works! ive seen the evidence. maybe because he has such a nutrient rich substrate...

Well, as George righty points out, NH4 based compounds seem to be the De Jour component in many of the commercial nutrients, probably due to it's lower cost per mole of Nitrogen. If this is the case it makes sense to lower the water dosing and to depend on nutrient uptake from the sediment. If we are using innocuous salts such as KNO3 and KH2PO4 though then there is no issue at all and we are free to dose at any level we choose.

Another reason is that the community may consider algal outbreaks inevitable and in that case it would be logical to lower the nutrient levels in order to attenuate the bloom growth rate. However, if we understand the causal factors of the blooms we have complete freedom and we know what steps to take in order to mitigate or even avoid the blooms altogether.

Cheers,
 

Mark Evans

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

saintly said:
Well, as George righty points out, NH4 based compounds seem to be the De Jour component in many of the commercial nutrients, probably due to it's lower cost per mole of Nitrogen. If this is the case it makes sense to lower the water dosing and to depend on nutrient uptake from the sediment. If we are using innocuous salts such as KNO3 and KH2PO4 though then there is no issue at all and we are free to dose at any level we choose.

Another reason is that the community may consider algal outbreaks inevitable and in that case it would be logical to lower the nutrient levels in order to attenuate the bloom growth rate. However, if we understand the causal factors of the blooms we have complete freedom and we know what steps to take in order to mitigate or even avoid the blooms altogether.

lovely jubly ceg. :D

thankfully theres not one sign of algae.
 

jay

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Right, now my head has stopped going numb and eyes are de-crossed :? :D

I understand ammonia is the course of algae and fluctuating co2 levels, not nutrients, even though ammonia(to an extent is a nutrient)

ADA Amazonia Soil leeches ammonia doesn't it?
So could using a well established filter and large water changes from the beginning stop any algae issues?
And keep healthy dosing of nutrients throughout initial phases.

Sorry if this is thread hijacking but I'm still very green to this sort of in-depth knowledge and I'm fascinated.

ceg4048: I really like your way of thinking. I've read many posts from the likes of you and Tom Barr about ammonia being the main problem with algae... then I pick up the latest PFK magazine and theres an article about too much nitrate and potassium being the culprits. It can be very confusing.
 

ceg4048

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Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite

Hi Jay,
Yes, Aquasoil does leach NH4 into the water column and using a cycled filter will definitely help. The same can be said of using mulm to line the bottom of or to mix with the new sediment. Large water changes are always a most effective measure since it directly removes the main culprits (remember that it directly removes spores as well which filters do not).

I'm going to have to check out the PFK article and prepare a blog response. The nutrient haters are really getting out of hand. :twisted:

Cheers,
 
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