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Salvinia issue?

K

KirstyF

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Hi There

Anyone know what might be going on here?

I noticed a small patch (a couple of inches square) of discoloured leaves in the middle of my salvinia patch last weekend and removed them. Today, so 5 days later, I have this large patch of the same.

As you can see, it seems to be surrounded by perfectly healthy leaves, but is going black and when I pull it out, it is pretty much just slime.

Not sure what is happening as the surrounding leaves seem pretty healthy but whatever it is, it is spreading fast.

Any ideas?

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Hi all,
KirstyF said:
Not sure what is happening as the surrounding leaves seem pretty healthy but whatever it is, it is spreading fast.
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I've never seen it before on Salvinia, but it looks a bit like the "fungal" disease <"Damping-off">, caused by Pythium spp. I'm pretty sure it isn't treatable, so I might be tempted to try and create a "cordon sanitaire" well around the brown patch and just keep some good plants from the area well away from the brown patch.

cheers Darrel
 
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Thanks Darrel.
I’ll do a good clear out and see how it goes.

Do you know if I can assume that it would likely only effect the floaters. I ask because this patch sit pretty much on top of/amongst Val leaves that lay at the surface? I’m not seeing any issues with the Val’s at the moment.
 
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Hi all,
KirstyF said:
Do you know if I can assume that it would likely only effect the floaters.
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I'd guess it will just be the floaters (and possibly only Salvinia).

I couldn't find anything specifically for Salvinia, which is interesting as Salvinia "molesta" (auriculata group) is one of the world's worst weeds and there has been a lot of time and money spent on trying to find <"biological control organisms">.

cheers Darrel
 
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dw1305 said:
Hi all,

I'd guess it will just be the floaters (and possibly only Salvinia).

I couldn't find anything specifically for Salvinia, which is interesting as Salvinia "molesta" (auriculata group) is one of the world's worst weeds and there has been a lot of time and money spent on trying to find <"biological control organisms">.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...

Great, so I got special Salvinia murdering fungus. 🙄

Now I just need to figure out how to culture it and I could be worth millions! 😂
 
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MichaelJ said:
Surprising to me that this could spread so much just over the course of a few days. Actual plant diseases seems like one of those topics we know very little about in the hobby.

@KirstyF, I hope you get it under control!

Cheers,
Michael
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Thanks Michael

I was rather surprised myself. I pulled the small clump out on Saturday (clearly must have left some bits) and then been away from Mon til late last night so spotted this lot when I was feeding this morning…..so that’s actually 6 days, I can’t add up 😂 but either way it’s an incredibly fast spread.

I wonder whether it being a lidded tank has fostered the right conditions for the fungus to take hold.

I’ve heard that red root floaters don’t do so well under glass!! but Salvinia should be fine and the unaffected areas look really healthy so at a bit of a loss.

Let’s hope a thorough clear out does the job. 🤞
 
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KirstyF said:
I’ve heard that red root floaters don’t do so well under glass!! but Salvinia should be fine and the unaffected areas look really healthy so at a bit of a loss.
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Hi @KirstyF Yes, I was wondering about that... If the infected Salvinia's are getting more exposed to moist, but I suppose you would have noticed that difference. At least Frogbit have a reputation of not being very happy about getting the outside of leaves wet/moist, but I never had any problems with that. I have both my tanks covered with glass and only about 1-1.5 cm between the water surface and the underside of the glass-cover and its always super wet/moist. What they don't like however is being tumbled around and/or submerged.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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MichaelJ said:
Hi @KirstyF Yes, I was wondering about that... If the infected Salvinia's are getting more exposed to moist, but I suppose you would have noticed that difference. At least Frogbit have a reputation of not being very happy about getting the outside of leaves wet/moist, but I never had any problems with that. I have both my tanks covered with glass and only about 1-1.5 cm between the water surface and the underside of the glass-cover and its always super wet/moist. What they don't like however is being tumbled around and/or submerged.

Cheers,
Michael
Click to expand...

Yeah, I lost most of my first lot of floaters to the washing machine effect (you live and learn 🤪) but these don’t get tumbled at all because of the protection the Vals give them and if anything they get a bit more ventilation than the middle of the tank where I have healthy bits of Salvinia amongst my floating hydrocotyle.

This area is maybe 6” away from an ‘air gap’ (I keep the lids open a couple of inches in two places for extra ventilation) and there’s another space at the back of that particular glass section for the inlet/outlet pipes. I’ve recently put mesh over those gaps to stop the glowlights jumping but that shouldn’t impact anything.

It is quite close to where I feed (so fingers in the water) and both me and my handy helper do a lot in the garden. Maybe we brought something in!

I don’t feed floating food so waste getting caught up/decomposing shouldn’t be an issue.

Hey ho. They are cleared out now, with a good couple of inches of healthy growth taken out all round (very fiddly job) so let’s see!!
 
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John q said:
Distribute your ferts in alternative sides of the tank, feel quite confident the "fungal infection" will go away 😁
Suspect this is, wait for it... fertiliser burn...
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Now wouldn’t that be ironic 😂

Well, happy to give anything a whirl so I’ll add that remedy to the list. 👍

Ferts do also go through the ‘air gap’ 6” away but I’d expect them to be taken down and disperse as they are going directly into the flow from the gyre. 🤔

Could be getting a bit of drift I guess!
 
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MirandaB said:
I've had this before on Salvinia but only in minimal flow tanks,in the others where it's moving about more I've never had the issue.
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This is an interesting possibility. As I mentioned the Salvinia sit amongst and on top of Val leaves and are pretty much surrounded by a thick curl of val’s so surface movement here is very light, and would be at its most still in the centre where this issue started. It’s about the only spot on the tank surface that doesn’t really ripple.

Doesn’t discount @John q ‘s theory as I guess if concentrated ferts drifted there, they would also be less likely to disperse.

If I can get the issue clear and the healthy stuff spreading again, I might just have to do some experimentation in Salvinia murdering. See if I can purposefully induce and solve for future prosperity. 😊
 
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John q said:
Suspect this is, wait for it... fertiliser burn...
Click to expand...

John, I have never heard of that in a planted tank. But then again, there are an abundance of things that I've never heard of! :lol: Fertilizer burn (from Nitrogen) is definitely a thing with terrestrial plants... just come and inspect my lawn in the spring, and I'll prove it:lol:

Following your theory (along the lines of a static terrestrial environment), assuming there is such a thing as fertilizer burn in a planted tank, I would say you would have to have almost no flow/circulation in your tank for that to happen possibly combined with very high concentrations of fertilizer - which are conditions that are not good to begin with.

Either way, it's always a good idea to dose fertilizer in an area of the tank where you maximize the chance of it to get properly dispersed. I recently installed an autodoser in one of my tanks (for traces) and the dosing tube goes down straight in from of one of my internal circulation pumps.

What say you Darrel / @dw1305 or others on the topic of fertilizer burn in a planted tank?

Cheers,
Michael
 
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KirstyF said:
Now wouldn’t that be ironic 😂
Click to expand...

MichaelJ said:
John, I have never heard of that in a planted tank.
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Haha, I should have maybe posed this as a question rather than a statement.

I had a very similar issue with some frogbit turning into a brown mushy mess and a java fern doing the same thing, at the time I just dumped my ferts into the flow of the outlet. The kettled frogbit would be the first in line and then the java fern underneath.

Could well be coincidental but after I started adding the ferts in a more controlled manner (a bit slower and mixing up the area where they got deployed) the issue went away.

Again I could well be thinking 2+2=5 😂
 
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Hi all,
John q said:
I had a very similar issue with some frogbit turning into a brown mushy mess and a java fern doing the same thing, at the time I just dumped my ferts into the flow of the outlet. The kettled frogbit would be the first in line and then the java fern underneath.
Click to expand...
If you add dry salts fertiliser burn is a real risk and it would look almost exactly like that. We have a thread somewhere where Hemianthus in a dry start with ADA Amazonia shows the same effects and we think that was <"fertiliser burn, followed by opportunistic "fungal" attack">.

cheers Darrel
 
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Well they say a picture paints a thousand words so…..

From the top, you can see the Vals laying on the water surface to the right with a good patch of Salvinia at the back. The ‘empty space’ in front of that patch is where I’ve removed all the damaged Salvinia from, and the ‘air gap’ to the left is where I feed and dispense ferts.
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From underneath, the air gap is pretty much in line with the branch at the front that breaks the waterline (and is buried in hydrocotyle) so ferts and food are dispensed between that and the large mossy branch behind and therefore pick up the right hand side of the flow from the gyre.

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I do the same on the left here, where the air gap sits almost bang on dead centre of the gyre, but somewhat further away from any surface foliage.
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I only dose liquid ferts, 100ml macro, 25ml micro, (and yes I put half in each side, which is probably totally unnecessary but what can I say 🤪)

The only extra concentrated fert would be Mg which I just add once per week after water change. Around 30g which I swirl into around 250ml of water (just because that’s the size of my little jug) but it doesn’t fully dissolve.

Burn or no burn🔥 ?

Over to you guys. 😂
 
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