Silicate removal..

[oreo57]

Anyone know what chemical Sera or JBL uses to remove JUST silicates?
Here in the US all we can get is "stuff" that removes both phosphates and silicates.
Amazon product ASIN B00UUAY3TYAluminum oxide based?

SERA and JBL sell a selective compound that supposedly does not remove phosphates.
I'm baffled why such a product is not available here. Kind of an unusual turn around.

Related question SERA lists it a "MARINE" while the JBL lists both fw and sw use.

https://bigamart.com/product/sera-marin-silicate-removal-filter-500-g/?gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgsqoBhBNEiwAwe5w0wwUvoOj4c0D1VXlAlFcuewF7ip41LlP_z2INYC45YzY6xiciutP3RoC3eIQAvD_BwE

Amazon product ASIN B01NBNPTYP
So chemists?

OPP's the JBL does state it removes phosphates.
Leaves just the mystery of SERA and saltwater.

so SERA Silicate Clearand Osmocote for water gardens.. 2 products that are unavailable in the US.

Scotts Osmocote® Controlled Release Fertiliser: Water Gardens & Aquatic Plants

FEATURES Scotts Osmocote® uses advanced prill technology that ensures even and controlled nutrient release with no wastage The tabs have a non-s

www.lovethegarden.com

Thought I'd throw that in for fun. Can you get that in the UK?
someday I may test "regular" Osmocote which many use for home made root tabs. I seriously doubt it is a slow release in a water environment.
Those "pills" are designed to open when wet. I believe they would rapidly dump in an aquarium.

 

[Hanuman]

Related question SERA lists it a "MARINE" while the JBL lists both fw and sw use.
https://bigamart.com/product/sera-m...wF7ip41LlP_z2INYC45YzY6xiciutP3RoC3eIQAvD_BwE

Leaves just the mystery of SERA and saltwater.

As many of the products in this hobby the manufacturers often obfuscate the composition of their product or simply do not provide it at all, probably because legislation does not force them to. This said after some research, some forums and websites seem to agree that SERA Silicate Remover is just Aluminium oxide considering that aluminium seems to increase in the water after using this product. Unless you know someone at SERA willing to divulge that information, all you will get is best guesses.

so SERA Silicate Clearand Osmocote for water gardens.. 2 products that are unavailable in the US.

Scotts Osmocote® Controlled Release Fertiliser: Water Gardens & Aquatic Plants

FEATURES Scotts Osmocote® uses advanced prill technology that ensures even and controlled nutrient release with no wastage The tabs have a non-s

www.lovethegarden.com

This is interesting. It's the first time I see an osmocote product clearly targeting aquatic plants.

someday I may test "regular" Osmocote which many use for home made root tabs. I seriously doubt it is a slow release in a water environment.
Those "pills" are designed to open when wet. I believe they would rapidly dump in an aquarium.

In general, osmocote products (the product above aside) are technically not designed to be used underwater so they will inevitably leach faster than in soil. This said, the balls are not designed to open when wet as you said. It's a bit more technical than that. They are designed to slowly release their content through osmotic action. When using osmocote in a planted tank it is highly advisable to dig the balls as deep as possible to prevent too much leaching in the water column.

 

[oreo57]

As many of the products in the this hobby the manufacturers obfuscate the composition of their product or simply do not provide it at all, probably because legislation does not force them to. This said after some research, some forums and websites seem to agree that SERA Silicate Remover is just Aluminium oxide considering that aluminium seems to increase in the water after using this product. Unless you know someone at SERA willing to divulge that information, all you will get is best guesses.


This is interesting. It's the first time I see an osmocote product clearly targeting aquatic plants.


In general, osmocote products (the product above aside) are technically not designed to be used underwater so it will inevitably leach faster than in soil. This said, the balls are not designed to open when wet as you said. It's a bit more technical than that. They are designed so slowly release their content through osmotic action. When using osmocote in a planted tank it is highly advisable to dig the balls as deep as possible to prevent too much leaching in the water column.

Yea I did simplify the process..

Osmocote 5 - Next Gen Controlled Release Fertilizer Technology | ICL Blog

Osmoctoe 5 is the latest controlled release fertilizer development by ICL Group, designed NutriMatch technology for best yield.

www.icl-group.com

Osmocote granules are mixed into the plant’s growing medium, in the pot or container. When the plants are watered, the water penetrates the granule coating and a process starts that dissolves the nutrients. Osmotic pressure influenced by temperature releases the nutrients through the coating and the nutrients begin to move outwards. The nutrients are released at a constant and controlled rate during longevity. When all nutrients are released the resin coating breaks down and disintegrates.

The way I looked at the process is once the water "bridge" is established and the pores expand a bit with heat (what else would heat do?) there will be a continual "osmosis" of nutrients (high gradient) from the ball till the nutrients are exhausted.
This will occur much faster in a continuous aquatic environment as opposed to a pot or soil where the "bridge" is cyclically severed or lessened.

Now their explanation seems to imply that the balls suck in water which dissolves the nutrients and are released when the surrounding media is dry(er) aided by soil heating, again though through pores.. you need the "membrane" to be permeable or like a cell membrane "active" (which I doubt) so some sort of pore.. Most resins work on that principle pores and affinities..(my take).

Osmosis refers specifically to the movement of water across a semipermeable membrane, with the solvent (water, for example) moving from an area of low solute (dissolved material) concentration to an area of high solute concentration.

The nitrate ect molecules will move from the ball to the water column via water.
Reverse osmosis filters have "pores" (semi-permeable) too small for larger than water molecules to cross over with some other effects.

RO membranes are considered dense non-porous membranes that separate water and solutes by size exclusion and Donnan effects (electric repulsion between a charged solute and similarly charged membrane).

Membrane with average pore diameters between 2 and 0.2 nm is classified as microporous. Below 0.2 nm, membranes are clas- sified as nonporous (or dense). Table 1

Of course the dissolved nutrients will have a charge so the osmocote balls can't be that "complicated".

Oh afaict it is only available in australia. I did email Scotts to see if it was available in the US and they replied no.
Bottom line though is yes more than likely faster exchange.. How fast is still???
I was going to soak some and then measure daily nitrate levels then my test kit ran out.

Nitrogen - 14% (Nitrate Nitrogen - 5.8%; Ammoniacal Nitrogen - 8.20%)

BACK to SERA yea I may never know what is different between it and the Si/P type things.
as to Marine only, may be pH related though there is some crossover in pH between salt and fresh water.

 

[Hanuman]

Osmocote products release more or less fast their content as per design of the coating. There is a range of products with each product having a designed release speed.

Bottom line though is yes more than likely faster exchange.. How fast is still???

Yes in water they will definitely release their payload faster. How fast you ask? That's a guess, but I have had osmocote in my tanks a few times in the past. After several weeks I removed some to see how they were doing. I crushed them between my fingers and it came out that they still had plenty of fertilizer inside. So it's not as fast as putting them in the water and in 3 days all the content is out. It can take up to 1-2 months for them to fully release it all under water.

 

[oreo57]

Osmocote products release more or less fast their content as per design of the coating. There is a range of products with each product having a designed release speed.

Yes in water they will definitely release their payload faster. How fast you ask? That's a guess, but I have had osmocote in my tanks a few times in the past. After several weeks I removed some to see how they were doing. I crushed them between my fingers and it came out that they still had plenty of fertilizer inside. So it's not as fast as putting them in the water and in 3 days all the content is out. It can take up to 1-2 months for them to fully release it all under water.

So that puts a debt in my theory .
Hmmm some parts of my correspondence with Scotts is coming back to me.
Has to do with the heat effect vs water.
I'll have to look for it. Still they do have a specific product for aquatic plants.

 

[_Maq_]

Why do you care to remove silicates? Silicon belongs among beneficial elements for plants, esp. for mosses, ferns, and grasses. I dose silicic acid quite regularly, and although I can't prove it has any positive effect, I've never observed any negative one either.

I don't think there's anything but aluminum oxide for that purpose on the market.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I seriously doubt it is a slow release in a water environment.
Those "pills" are designed to open when wet. I believe they would rapidly dump in an aquarium.

Osmocote products release more or less fast their content as per design of the coating. There is a range of products with each product having a designed release speed.

They do, the slow release prills have a thicker resin coat, but release is still designed to happen when it is wet and warm. Fine for a terrestrial pot plant, but <"sub-optimal in the aquarium">. I'd be a <"very reluctant user"> of any inorganic salt based controlled release fertiliser, except in very low dosages.

and Osmocote for water gardens.. 2 products that are unavailable in the US.

Strange, Scotts are a USA based company <"Scotts Miracle-Gro Company - Wikipedia">.

Why do you care to remove silicates?

In terms of diatom growth there <"are ~always enough"> orthosilicic acids <"available to them">, they are incredibly adept at harvesting it. I have snails <"and Ceratophyllum demersum in my tanks"> and both may help with reducing diatom growth.

I don't think there's anything but aluminum oxide for that purpose on the market.

......... Removing silicate compounds in water with aluminium oxide using aluminium hydroxide co precipitation mechanisms.........

Or iron oxide? Either will still <"remove phosphate (PO4---) from the water column">. Personally, I'm pretty sure any "cure" is worse than the "problem".

cheers Darrel

 

[oreo57]

Hi all,


They do, the slow release prills have a thicker resin coat, but release is still designed to happen when it is wet and warm. Fine for a terrestrial pot plant, but <"sub-optimal in the aquarium">. I'd be a <"very reluctant user"> of any inorganic salt based controlled release fertiliser, except in very low dosages.

Strange, Scotts are a USA based company <"Scotts Miracle-Gro Company - Wikipedia">.

In terms of diatom growth there <"are ~always enough"> orthosilicic acids <"available to them">, they are incredibly adept at harvesting it. I have snails <"and Ceratophyllum demersum in my tanks"> and both may help with reducing diatom growth.


Or iron oxide? Either will still <"remove phosphate (PO4---) from the water column">. Personally, I'm pretty sure any "cure" is worse than the "problem".

cheers Darrel

HEY.. I found it..BUT there is conflicting information. 2 inquiries 7 months apart..

Scotts response​ Date: 5/10/2019 Message: Hi Jeff Unfortunately Osmocote Aquatic Plants & Water Gardens is only available in Australia, BUT this product is based on a commercial Osmocote product - Plant Tabs - which we believe would be available in the USA. We are not aware of using Osmocote in gel caps for freshwater use but they would probably work. The gel itself would dissolve relatively slowly (depending on the type of gel used) and the coating of the Osmocote prills (beads) is also controlled or slow release. Worth thinking about. Because we have the Osmocote cones of the Aquatic Plants & Water Gardens, we don''t have to think of alternatives!

Thank you for contacting us and for the opportunity to help you with your lawn and garden endeavors.

Unfortunately, we do not have any information on products that are sold in other countries. We also do not have information on why a product would be registered for us in some countries and not others. I do apologize for any inconvenience.
We do not recommend using Scotts Osmocate Plus in an aquarium because it is not designed for that use and the time release would be destroyed by soaking in water.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your interest in our products. Please feel free to contact us anytime we may be of assistance.

Shaquita
Brand Ambassador
The Scotts Company and Subsidiaries