SirBuce's Dutch Sunset (55L)

[SirBuce]

Heya @chickennublet glad to hear from you aha. I read your journal last week and love your tank! So minimalistic (exactly what I love) and tidy ha. I fully agreed with your 2 points you mentioned in your journal lol (been meaning to post a reply but didn't manage ha...), I also cranked up the Co2 as much as possible since a few weeks ago and also worry less on the fert dosage.

So ya for those 3 points you mentioned above, indeed I didn't think it would matter much at this stage - they were some good experiments ha.

For the pH, I am going to measure every hour today for accurate results (the joy of WFH ha) and come back to let you know ha.
I just measured there earlier at about 8am, the tank is at 5.6, the rest of my non-Co2 tanks are at 6.
The tap water pH is 6.3 (it usually goes around 6.5, depends on the time of the day, I have extensive details of my tap water in My First Aquascape - Red Cherry Jungle (30L) ha, convoluted stuff, but basically good enough soft water? I sometimes can't help to think that maybe it is 'too soft' as minerals like Ca/Mg would be beneficial for our hobby ha...)

So the CO2 is on 9am-5pm (8hr), light is on 11am-7pm (8hr) - so the CO2 started 2 hours before light on (made this change few days ago actually), the pH drop checker is usually near yellowish when the light is on. I see pearling especially from the Rotalas at about 2-3pm.

Fert regime, I have been trying different dosage/mixture between MasterLine I/II/P/K and Tropica TSN/TPN - for about 1 month now, I basically settled with a less N version of 6ml TSN per week (see screenshot below). If i dosed anything more I immediately notice the GSA grows significantly more/faster on the glass. From what I understand (like from 2hr site ha) that ideally we want to have less N for these reddish plants to show colour anyway...

Less N version of 6ml TSN per week:

Fert schedule (5% WC twice a week):

6ml of TSN for reference:

 

[SirBuce]

And after typing the reply...wait...did I unintentionally suffocate the MC from N lol...but there are plenty of livestock so I thought it was ok... (5 tetras, 6 guppies, 6 CPDs, 5 Otos - also recently added 3 Siamese Algae Eater and 5 rasboras).

And also I am thinking, maybe the flow/distribution of water/fert is not even for the whole tank - I could see the Co2 actually reached the whole tank, and the MC are pearling also (not too obvious and not all of them).

I forget to mention that I also tried using Co2 diffusor for a couple of days, my conclusion is that inline Co2 for sure is more efficient (quite some Co2 from diffusor go straight up to the surface), and also the Co2 bubbles are finer (diffusor does ok too but not consistently fine as the inline).

 

[chickennublet]

And after typing the reply...wait...did I unintentionally suffocate the MC from N lol...but there are plenty of livestock so I thought it was ok... (5 tetras, 6 guppies, 6 CPDs, 5 Otos - also recently added 3 Siamese Algae Eater and 5 rasboras).

And also I am thinking, maybe the flow/distribution of water/fert is not even for the whole tank - I could see the Co2 actually reached the whole tank, and the MC are pearling also (not too obvious and not all of them).

I forget to mention that I also tried using Co2 diffusor for a couple of days, my conclusion is that inline Co2 for sure is more efficient (quite some Co2 from diffusor go straight up to the surface), and also the Co2 bubbles are finer (diffusor does ok too but not consistently fine as the inline).

Nah, I don't think the flow is an issue. The tank is not very big and you're using a Filtosmart 200 yeah? For reference I'm using a 60 on mine. Your tank is considerably larger though but I think the 200 should be adequate.

I'd stick to inline. The only reason I'm not on inline is because I haven't been able to find one small enough.

For a tank of this size I'd start CO2 one hour before lights turn on and stop CO2 an hour before lights turn on. Currently have mine set to start 90 minutes before lights on though. But what you're doing now should be fine so don't change it anymore. Making too many changes in a short span of time is almost never a good thing. I don't think you need to test pH hourly. If should be sufficient if you test it before the CO2 comes on, and then once more just before the lights turn on.

For CO2 are you still using the citric acid thing?

I will be completely honest and say that I don't know if the numbers in your screenshot are good or bad... just wanted to make sure you were dosing something. Although are you changing 5% water twice a week? Is that all the water changes your tank gets?

 

[SirBuce]

Yes Filtosmart 200, not great flow but I think it does its job ok (not too confident here as I know Oase filter flow actually decreases over time ha). I just cleaned up the cannister recently (and it was a quite clean when I opened it), so the maintenance part is alright.

Inline co2: I actually saw some super mini ones as my friend is looking for one that I didn't know they exist lol. He got it from Amazon.co.uk here so you likely could find it easier on AliExpress or Shopee.

Yes indeed I have been trying to keep in mind not to keep changing things too much/too fast in a short time. Ah this hobby is truly not easy. At some point I also realized that Dutch style is definitely not easy 😂🥲 Wallichi and Hra are not 'easy' plants by Tropica definition lol.

Co2: I just want to have hourly record as I haven't done that for awhile and especially now that I have a schedule that I'm confident/comfortable with 😂

And I said pearling as in there are air bubbles under the leaves of the Rotalas/Guyana and occasionally bubbles release by the MC - not the kind of contant air bubbles streaming up from plants.

WC:
Ah that's just the 'ideal' maintenance schedule. In reality I changed about 20-30% water per week (whenever I did maintenance like trimming or cleaning the glass, or cleaning the filter). Also taking a cup of water for the plants here and there, and topping up for the evaporation almost every 1-2 days.


So ya all in all, the dilemma of whether I need stronger light is not just for the MC, but also the colours of my Wallichii and Hra. I have some Rotala Bonsai at the back that the growth is rather slow (vs my previous experience). I regret using Dennerle Aquasoil but the soil shouldn't matter that much? Previously Tropica substrate really performs so well for the Bonsai and Hra.🫠🫠🫠

 

[chickennublet]

Yes Filtosmart 200, not great flow but I think it does its job ok (not too confident here as I know Oase filter flow actually decreases over time ha). I just cleaned up the cannister recently (and it was a quite clean when I opened it), so the maintenance part is alright.

Inline co2: I actually saw some super mini ones as my friend is looking for one that I didn't know they exist lol. He got it from Amazon.co.uk here so you likely could find it easier on AliExpress or Shopee.

Yes indeed I have been trying to keep in mind not to keep changing things too much/too fast in a short time. Ah this hobby is truly not easy. At some point I also realized that Dutch style is definitely not easy 😂🥲 Wallichi and Hra are not 'easy' plants by Tropica definition lol.

Co2: I just want to have hourly record as I haven't done that for awhile and especially now that I have a schedule that I'm confident/comfortable with 😂

And I said pearling as in there are air bubbles under the leaves of the Rotalas/Guyana and occasionally bubbles release by the MC - not the kind of contant air bubbles streaming up from plants.

WC:
Ah that's just the 'ideal' maintenance schedule. In reality I changed about 20-30% water per week (whenever I did maintenance like trimming or cleaning the glass, or cleaning the filter). Also taking a cup of water for the plants here and there, and topping up for the evaporation almost every 1-2 days.


So ya all in all, the dilemma of whether I need stronger light is not just for the MC, but also the colours of my Wallichii and Hra. I have some Rotala Bonsai at the back that the growth is rather slow (vs my previous experience). I regret using Dennerle Aquasoil but the soil shouldn't matter that much? Previously Tropica substrate really performs so well for the Bonsai and Hra.🫠🫠🫠

I've not used the Dennerle aquasoil myself. Currently using the Tropica one, I really like it.

Maybe the Dennerle doesn't have a lot of nutrients in it.

 

[REDSTEVEO]

I've not used the Dennerle aquasoil myself. Currently using the Tropica one, I really like it.

Maybe the Dennerle doesn't have a lot of nutrients in it.

"I regret using Dennerle Aquasoil but the soil shouldn't matter that much? Previously Tropica substrate really performs so well for the Bonsai and Hra."

I've only used Aquasoil once, it was the ADA Amazonia. Despite its claims I never really liked it. I found that planting carpeting plants with small root systems was nigh on impossible. Especially if you have Coryadorus species which constantly disturbed the substrate, sending the plants floating to the surface.

The other annoying thing was the brown dust particles which always settled on larger plant leaves and caused diatomaceous algae, and poor growth.

So since then I've always used Sera Flora Depot as the fertiliser base under a two inch layer of fine quartz gravel. Old school, and works fine.

 

[SirBuce]

"I regret using Dennerle Aquasoil but the soil shouldn't matter that much? Previously Tropica substrate really performs so well for the Bonsai and Hra."

I've only used Aquasoil once, it was the ADA Amazonia. Despite its claims I never really liked it. I found that planting carpeting plants with small root systems was nigh on impossible. Especially if you have Coryadorus species which constantly disturbed the substrate, sending the plants floating to the surface.

The other annoying thing was the brown dust particles which always settled on larger plant leaves and caused diatomaceous algae, and poor growth.

So since then I've always used Sera Flora Depot as the fertiliser base under a two inch layer of fine quartz gravel. Old school, and works fine.

Aha, yes it is known Amazonia is not great for carpeting plants (it is still alright apparently).

So ya I learned my lesson, I now have the Tropica powder version aquasoil for the front/carpeting plants and also Amaozonia v2 for the 'main use' per se (I like that it comes with root tabs) - and I got them at a good discount and they will last me a long time ha

Thanks for the recommendation on the Sera Flora Depot - I don't see Sera products that common (also I often use the site Aquasabi doesn't carry them) - I use Tropica Substrate instead. So ya...I am falling back to what I trusted most ha.

 

[SirBuce]

I've not used the Dennerle aquasoil myself. Currently using the Tropica one, I really like it.

Maybe the Dennerle doesn't have a lot of nutrients in it.

Indeed I suspect that, I am going to insert some root tabs next time when I do a trimming.

So ya my pH looks like this:
Tap water ~6.5 (I use water treated with Prime storing in a big bucket)
Degassed tank water ~6 (grabbed a cup of tank and let it sat overnight)

CO2 on 9am-5pm; Light on 11am-7pm

Tank water by hours:
8am: ~5.5
10am: 5.2
11am: 5.2
2pm: 5.1
3pm: 5
4pm: 5
7pm: 5
11pm: 5.2

I see a lot of pearling from all plants around 3pm onwards - I can at least tell myself that I know how to use CO2 aha...

So ya there is a good discount on Chihiros non-slim 45 version, I just might pull the trigger. I don't really need to use 100% of its power but it should be good enough for the tank for a long time - I am hoping now they will grow better colours when I do my next trimming + higher light. Will try to sell the Slim 45 (hate to have something just sits there wasted).

Another funny thing is that, after my post on whether I unintentionally under ferted the MC...

I started to use a syringe to dose the fert under water near the MC 🤣 I think the MC is indeed suffering some deficiency...they grow best when I dosed 8ml of Tropica Specialized (stopped doing that since I get significant GSA growth on glass). I now suspect the tank has a bit of awkward flow issue since I usually pump the fert at the outlet and let it carries over to the whole tank but somehow the fert ended up feeding the GSA on the tank glass? 😵‍💫Not much sign of GSA (yet) so far so finger crossed...

 

[SirBuce]

A small update as I was doing some trimming on this Buce Platter (a 'modular' piece that I have grown them previously in My First Aquascape - Red Cherry Jungle (30L) and then move here), thought folks might enjoy seeing this ha


After trimmed:


So indeed as much as I would love to see them permanently in the tank...but likely it would be better to move them out at some point. The stem plants basically cover up half the 'platter' and I think I could use the space better if I replanted the stem plants over that area.

Testing 123 ha


(and yes I need MOAR Buce Kedagang or whatever reddish Buce!)

 

[SirBuce]

The tank is nearly 6 months old at this stage!

I upgraded the light to the non-slim version of 45 nearly a month now, I have to say I am pleased with the upgrade ha. I am using R/G/B at 90/45/70% and I actually haven't seen much increase of algae (just the usual GSA on the corners of the glass that need a wipe every 1-2 weeks, no bother). So indeed it depends on the build/setup whether one should go for a slim or non-slim chihiros WRGB2 light.

I did more reading/watching/researching on dutch style tank in the meantime - the moment I realized that I have the idea for my build but my execution is clearly not on point (not experienced enough ha). I just might do a rescape some time in December, for a couple of reasons below:

• Personally for me it is a disappointing 6-month project at this stage - while I am happy to see the growth of the stem plants and finally the carpet is spreading (slowly...), I can't help but to keep thinking that if I have done things right, the project would have turned out much better and nicer in 1-2 months timeframe.
• I can't even trim and replanting the plants since there is not enough space ahaha.
• Another lesson learnt is that, I could (should) trim and replant the nicer top shots, and repeat as many times as possible (getting rid of the old stems also).
• In short yes, I kind of want to start everything from scratch (can still use some of these used soil as base), and now that I have quite a stock of plants available. I am actually inclined to do a classic dutch style, put deep enough soil, and then trimming/replanting/uprooting etc.

Oh well it was a good lesson so far I would say. Sure I could improve it here and there but let's not waste further resources (like I was thinking to insert some Tropica root capsules), and enjoy while it lasts.

Pictures time:

Slim 45 for comparison (R/G/B: ~100%):


Non-slim 45 (R/G/B: ~100%):


It is actually quite hard to notice the difference on pictures vs seeing with eyes (from above pics);
eventually non-slim version allows you to play on the contrast more (dramatic):

Non-slim 45 (R/G/B at 90/45/70%):


And when you take the pics with a good camera:


The reds are not too bad so indeed ya I will enjoy it while it lasts...

 

[MiZubov]

A small update as I was doing some trimming on this Buce Platter (a 'modular' piece that I have grown them previously in My First Aquascape - Red Cherry Jungle (30L) and then move here), thought folks might enjoy seeing this ha
View attachment 211359View attachment 211358

After trimmed:
View attachment 211360

So indeed as much as I would love to see them permanently in the tank...but likely it would be better to move them out at some point. The stem plants basically cover up half the 'platter' and I think I could use the space better if I replanted the stem plants over that area.

Testing 123 ha
View attachment 211357

(and yes I need MOAR Buce Kedagang or whatever reddish Buce!)

What is your secret of growing buce?
Maybe low light, high level of potassium or magnesium?
Thanks.