Solufeed 2:1:4 - IFC - low on P,K,Ca - user error?

[LFNfan]

OK, this IFC calculator business is a bit of a rabbit hole.

I have been playing around with the Remin calculator and see that if I continue using my 5L of tap water as part of my weekly 25L WC I'm inevitably going to end up with GH of around 8 and KH of around 4, and indeed that is what my test kits are showing me right now. I had hoped to bring this down using RO but it seems there is a floor with my current 20:5 RO:tap approach - it's 8:4 GH:KH.

So I am starting to consider the idea of going 100% RO, and remineralising with Epsom salts, gypsum, and sodium bicarbonate, none of which are extortionately expensive, are quite readily available, and which in prospect appears to be an appealing addition to my WC process.

If I do go the full RO route, what GH/KH values should I target, I wonder. @_Maq_ formula 13 is 0.54 GH 0.00 KH. Does this leave little buffer for an 'amateur' such as me? If that is a legitimate target, I suppose adjusting the WC parameters straight away would be OK as the change would not be immediately felt in the tank as the WC water would be diluted by existing tank water thus not stressing the tank's inhabitants all at once. I expect the snails will not like it in the end.

Question: in the Remin Calculator Weekly Target I see a target for 'K'. Do I just leave this blank, or do I input the 'K' from the Target Calculator? I expect I leave it blank otherwise I'm double-counting 'K'.

 

[_Maq_]

. @_Maq_ formula 13 is 0.54 GH 0.00 KH.

What I see as most important is maintaining the ratios among nutrients. If you fear going that lean, you may multiply all elements by the same number.
I really don't see any good in bicarbonates. I may be mistaken in this, though. Most plants like zero bicarbonates but I suspect there are a few exemptions. Perhaps some Echinodoruses? They don't grow well for me.

I expect the snails will not like it in the end.

My snails are fine.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I had hoped to bring this down using RO but it seems there is a floor with my current 20:5 RO:tap approach - it's 8:4 GH:KH.

Just add less tap water. I don't add a set amount, I just <"use a conductivity meter"> to <"keep me in the datum range">. In my case the <"tap water is pretty consistent"> all year around, but the <"rain-water is softer in the winter">.

and remineralising with Epsom salts, gypsum, and sodium bicarbonate, none of which are extortionately expensive, are quite readily available, and which in prospect appears to be an appealing addition to my WC process.

I really don't see any good in bicarbonates.

There is nothing appealing about sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) other than the cost, it is just the sodium (Na) content I don't like. You could substitute potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) and it is still cheap (~£6 for 500 g) if you do want to add some alkalinity (dKH)?

I expect the snails will not like it in the end.

I actually use the <"size and state of the Ramshorn snail shells"> as an <"index of hardness and alkalinity">. I'm a snail fan so I like to retain enough dKH so that they can survive in the tank.

cheers Darrel

 

[LFNfan]

Interesting, thanks both! Lots to learn.
I have tweaked remin salts accordingly but would welcome feedback as I'm just going by options in the IFC.
I have tried to keep SO4 down (balanced with Cl) and not add more K (that's covered by the macros). I have also tried to keep the number of salts down to three or four. But welcome feedback.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have tweaked remin salts accordingly but would welcome feedback as I'm just going by options in the IFC.

I wouldn't specifically use <"remineralising salts">.

I use the tap water as a source of Ca++ and 2HCO3- (1 : 1 dGH : dKH) and I add magnesium (Mg) (and potassium (K)) with the fertiliser. <"I'm a pretty shoddy aquarist">, but @Geoffrey Rea uses <"his tap water as a remineraliser"> and he is a proper planted tank keeper.

All three of us (@dw1305, @Geoffrey Rea & @LFNfan) will have <"similarly hard and alkaline tap water"> for <"geological reasons">.

If you did want to use a remineralising salt? I would <"dry dose it with a teaspoon">, due to solubility issue.

You can make up a mix of the three salts (MgSO4.7H2O, CaSO4.2H2O & KHCO3) in any proportion you like to give a ratio of dGH : dKH and Ca : Mg : K.

cheers Darrel

 

[LFNfan]

in any proportion you like to give a ratio of dGH : dKH and Ca : Mg : K.

Just to check my understanding on Ca:Mg:K, is the aim for a 1:1:1 ratio here, across ferts and any remineralising (tap / individual salts)? I only ask because others seem to suggest 3.2:1 Ca:Mg. Maybe there are just different views. @_Maq_ also mentioned the importance of maintaining ratios in his post above.

I wouldn't specifically use <"remineralising salts">.

Yep, not tripping up on that one! Remineralising salts = the individual salts from eg APC Pure, not the commercial premixed overpriced stuff.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Just to check my understanding on Ca:Mg:K, is the aim for a 1:1:1 ratio here,

You need @_Maq_ for <"the ratios">, they are derived from <"Marschner's Mineral Nutrition of Higher Plants"> . - <"GH+KH RO Reminiralzation Product Help.">. @_Maq_ said, in <"Humble and improving display tank">:

My perfect standard is K : Mg : Ca = 1 : 5 : 10 [molar], approx. 1 : 3 : 10 by weight. Quite often, you'll see that you don't have to follow these numbers too strictly, and majority of species will be fine. Especially if you support them with CO2.
Anyway, there should be always more magnesium and calcium than potassium in the water.

I will have a different ratio (I don't know what it is, and it will vary), because I'm using <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> (high in potassium (K)) mix as my base fertiliser. It wasn't the high potassium levels that attracted me, it was because the nitrogen source didn't include ammoniacal nitrogen (NH3 / NH4+).

Personally I use <"tap water as my calcium (Ca) source"> and and <"an occasional sprinkle of Epsom Salts"> as my magnesium (Mg) source, but I'm not doing any of it via set amounts, just via the <"Duckweed"> and <"Snail Shell"> Indices.

cheers Darrel

 

[Zeus.]

Question: in the Remin Calculator Weekly Target I see a target for 'K'. Do I just leave this blank, or do I input the 'K' from the Target Calculator? I expect I leave it blank otherwise I'm double-counting 'K'.

You only need to have an input/target for K if you after a specific [K] in you remin water. If your only after gH and kH just leave it blank. The last four salts (pic below) in the IFC are for K only, we only added it as some commercial remineraliser's have a specific [K] and if we hadn't added these salts some remin cloning may of been difficult. So we was just trying to cover every base to give the user the most options/choices. Also you may be adding these salts as part of your fert regime and Front Loading with the WC so having added to the remin made sense at the time. e.g. you can always target a specific [K] by proxy to front load a specific [NO3].

The IFC also has a remin option in the target calculator

Which may suit/help you needs also

 

[LFNfan]

Perfect. Thanks @dw1305 , @Zeus. This is exactly* what I am looking for! I will have another look at the IFC.

A Google on 'Ca Mg K ratios aquarium' brought me here. Second result listed (but obviously seeing the ukaps URL makes it #1 in my eyes).

'Sprinkle' and Indices approach noted and understood, but I think for me, for now, precision and observation could be the most fruitful approach.

* @_Maq_ 's perfect standard ratio is in moles so a bit of maths will be required to go from IFC ppm for each element to moles. I've had a bash at that in the attached.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

'Sprinkle' and Indices approach noted and understood, but I think for me, for now, precision and observation could be the most fruitful approach.

Point taken. I make no excuses for myself, I could do better, but <"I'm happy bumping along the bottom">.

I think <"observation is always the key">. Since I've spent more time with Ecologists it has taught me that inferential methods can be just as powerful as empirical ones.

cheers Darrel

 

[LFNfan]

Au contrere. I have you in mind (and others of my esteemed elders and betters here) as chefs de cuisine adding just the right sized dash of seasoning to complete the dish, whereas I am the commis chef with all the jars stacked in front of me peering at the recipe and asking for help!

 

[LFNfan]

The IFC also has a remin option in the target calculator

This is cool.

 

[LFNfan]

I will have a different ratio (I don't know what it is, and it will vary), because I'm using <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> (high in potassium (K)) mix as my base fertiliser. I

Yes, same here. The IFC shows that the high K definitely does filter through to the ratios!
K very much aside, my Ca and Mg ratios conform to @_Maq_ 's standard as far as I understand it, and there will be more Ca and Mg than K too (4 : 2 : 1).
I think this is shaping up to be my tank focus for 2024.
Thanks again!

 

[Zeus.]

Ca and Mg ratios

That was the 'main' addition to the ReminCalculator sheet, to be able to specify a dKH and dGH and a Ca:Mg ratio and pick a few salts and presto it was done was a great triumph IMO, which in turn enable us to clone many more commercial remin agents. Plus having the ability to make remin solutions 'where possible'

 

[LFNfan]

With thanks to @Zeus. and @Hanuman and @dw1305 and @_Maq_ I have been on a bit of a learning journey over the past week and have now settled on and implemented my new dosing and remin plan:

• Weekly WC 25L RO, 2.5L tap plus epsom salts for Mg.
• I am targeting 7.5 ppm NO3 weekly with the Solufeed 2:1:4, and Solufeed Sodium free TEC micros targeting 0.5ppm Fe, and a separate Fe container to top up as needed
• GH and KH of ~3 and ~1.75. Tempted to go lower but this will already be a lot lower than my current 8 and 4.
• Ca:Mg:K ratio of 5:3:1 molar. Not ideal but meets minimum requirement as I understand it of K < Mg and K< Ca. Could get Ca:Mg ratio to 2:1 molar but constrained by tap for now. K will always be high given source of macros.

How exciting. Feels almost like a new start!
Thanks again

 

[_Maq_]

have now settled on and implemented my new dosing and remin plan

I like it.