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Substrate Advice Needed - Established Tank

M

MummyW

New Member
Joined
11 Mar 2024
Messages
18
Location
Edinburgh
Hello, I’m so new to the aquarium world that a year ago I didn’t even know that you could grow plants in a fish tank, so please excuse my potentially stupid questions …

So, I hate my tank! It’s just dull, and the white sand was the single worst decision I’ve ever made, having moved in what I can only describe as poop machines I find myself trying to vacuum up their mess at least twice a day because seeing it lying on the sand drives me insane. The main issue with this is, I’m very short and my tank is very tall, so I struggle to reach in and end up either half in the tank on a step ladder or with a sore back from trying to stretch but I understand how important it is to keep the tank free of waste. My plants also don’t seem to grow, but they don’t die either.

I currently have white coral sand as substrate, with various types of plants along the sides as I’m slowly building the amount over time. I have two ornaments and a large piece of drift wood with Java fern attached to it which stands upright in a corner. It’s a 300l slim, tall rectangle shaped tank which is home to Balloon Mollies, Dwarf Gourami, Angels and Sword Tails. There are also 3 yo-yo loaches.

I know it’s not ideal to be messing around with the tank after I’ve added fish, but they’ve been there for months and I didn’t know all of this was possible until after they’d moved in. I really need advice from people who know what’s what!

1. Is there a better substrate? I’ve seen tanks with what looks like little black/dark brown balls which look amazing, ideally I’d like something that will allow my plants to grow healthier etc but that also won’t make the poop stick out like a sore thumb in between vacuuming.

2. Are there any alternative substrates that will be amazing for the plants and fish, that I can add to the tank now that it’s established? I do have three other tanks running that are under stocked but I’d rather not move them for weeks if I can avoid it.

Thank you for any advice you can offer, and I apologise for being so clueless!
 
Hello!
Dull tank driving you insane - sounds like there is room for improvement!

There are a few things going on in your post. The philosophy here is that you can reach your goals in multiple ways - there is no one best way. That said, if you have started this tank with inert substrate you might want to continue that way.

I remove poop from my planted and lightly stocked tank with a syphon maybe once every few months. Twice a day would also drive me nuts. I water change once every week. I have coarse sand substrate (mixed colours), no aqua soil (the 'black/brown balls' ?) or anything like that. (tank pics via link in my signature). My plants get their nutrients from the water column.

Do you have a tank pic? And some info on lighting (amount, duration) and what fertiliser you are using and how much?
 
Thank you for your reply! I’ve attached some super boring tank pics haha! I e tried the seachem flourish excel and two different kinds of fertiliser from Maidenhead aquatics.

I have an LED light above the tank which does various levels of white and blue light, it also has red, pink and green in between the blue and white bulbs which I was told was good for plants. I usually have this running for a minimum of 10 hours before it slowly dims to a “moonlight” setting and then turns off over night.

As far as I am aware most of my plants feed off the water, as I specifically told the people in the plant shops I had sand only substrate.

I think my issue with the poop other than it looking bad, is that I’m terrified of ammonia spikes and hurting my little fish friends! That being said, they seem to be relatively happy as we now have a baby tank up and running to rescue the Livebearers babies from my tank and my daughters and I presume if they were desperately miserable they wouldn’t want to bring babies into their world … but maybe I’m over thinking that haha!
 

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Wow, that does look like a tall tank! I am 6ft and I think I would struggle to get to the bottom of that tank!

Your fish look lovely. And breeding I think must be a good sign.

How long have your stem plants been in the aquarium, and well have they been growing?

Some of the broader leaf plants look like they are melting a bit. Perhaps they are newer or maybe a sign of a nutrient deficiency. Are you using tap water, and if so, can you download your water quality report from your water provider?

Do you have any floating plants?

I recon the most obvious cause of an ammonia spike would be over-feeding (decaying fish food, or just more fish pee and poo) or not removing a dead fish or snail. It's good to be cautious, and over time you will get a good feel for what's risky and what's less risky.

I think if it were me, and you want to go for it with the plants, I would be thinking about adding more inert sand substrate of a darker color, maybe getting overall substrate depth to an inch, inch and a half across the tank? That might mean a lift and replant which might put you off! Or if your plants don't mind buried stems you might not even need to do that.

And adding a floating plant such as limnobium laevigatum (see @dw1305 's What is the duckweed index? post). That will help you troubleshoot any nutrient / fertiliser issues and help get the plants growing rather than standing still (as it were).

And maybe another quick growing stem plant - I like limnophila sessiliflora.
 
MummyW said:
I think my issue with the poop other than it looking bad, is that I’m terrified of ammonia spikes and hurting my little fish friends!
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As you do not have a lot of plants, what filter are you running?
 
LFNfan said:
Wow, that does look like a tall tank! I am 6ft and I think I would struggle to get to the bottom of that tank!

Your fish look lovely. And breeding I think must be a good sign.

How long have your stem plants been in the aquarium, and well have they been growing?

Some of the broader leaf plants look like they are melting a bit. Perhaps they are newer or maybe a sign of a nutrient deficiency. Are you using tap water, and if so, can you download your water quality report from your water provider?

Do you have any floating plants?

I recon the most obvious cause of an ammonia spike would be over-feeding (decaying fish food, or just more fish pee and poo) or not removing a dead fish or snail. It's good to be cautious, and over time you will get a good feel for what's risky and what's less risky.

I think if it were me, and you want to go for it with the plants, I would be thinking about adding more inert sand substrate of a darker color, maybe getting overall substrate depth to an inch, inch and a half across the tank? That might mean a lift and replant which might put you off! Or if your plants don't mind buried stems you might not even need to do that.

And adding a floating plant such as limnobium laevigatum (see @dw1305 's What is the duckweed index? post). That will help you troubleshoot any nutrient / fertiliser issues and help get the plants growing rather than standing still (as it were).

And maybe another quick growing stem plant - I like limnophila sessiliflora.
Click to expand...
Is this the information about our water I’m looking for?

I have had plants in from as little as 2 weeks to as long as 4 months and I have seen a very, very small growth on the older plants which is why I was considering aqua soil as I want the plants and fish to thrive. I have a small amount of dwarf lettuce floating in the tank, I was told I didn’t need to buy much as it would spread like wildfire but I see no signs at all of that. There is around an inch and a half of sand in the tank at the moment, it just doesn’t look as though there is because of the stand and sides of the tank.

I’m glad a real grown up, of a real height can understand how being just over five foot would be an issue with this tank haha!
 

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Bradders said:
As you do not have a lot of plants, what filter are you running?
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I changed from a fluval filter in the tank to an all pond solutions external one to give the fish more space. Ideally I’d love for the filter to do as little work as possible and have the tank running as close to nature as it can be.
 
MummyW said:
information about our water
Click to expand...
Ok, your water seems rather good in many ways. I'm envious. But it doesn't have much in the way of NO3 for your plants so we should focus a bit on your fertiliser routine. You have 1 part per million NO3 out of the tap. My water has 30ppm! Your water is pretty pure in so far as dissolved solids (56.25 uS conductivity - mine is 700+!) Your water is soft (a great start for plants) . Mine is very hard (not easy for plants).
MummyW said:
small amount of dwarf lettuce floating in the tank
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Hm. I had issues with dwarf water lettuce withering away (and frogbit) . What solved that was upping the micro nutrients and more light. And softer water (but the latter not a problem for you it seems).
MummyW said:
an inch and a half of sand in the tank
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LOL - how tall is your tank??!
MummyW said:
all pond solutions external
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I also have one - like it a lot.

Do you have a regular fertiliser routine or is it a bit random? Details please :)
 
MummyW said:
Is this the information about our water I’m looking for?

I have had plants in from as little as 2 weeks to as long as 4 months and I have seen a very, very small growth on the older plants which is why I was considering aqua soil as I want the plants and fish to thrive. I have a small amount of dwarf lettuce floating in the tank, I was told I didn’t need to buy much as it would spread like wildfire but I see no signs at all of that. There is around an inch and a half of sand in the tank at the moment, it just doesn’t look as though there is because of the stand and sides of the tank.

I’m glad a real grown up, of a real height can understand how being just over five foot would be an issue with this tank haha!
Click to expand...

GEEZ! 56 uS/cm average conductivity! :woot: ...hit me running... where do you get this stuff... um.. water ... Columbia?

This is like 27 ppm TDS (x 0.5) tap water ... your tap water is almost as pure as good average rainwater or RO water with a tiny bit of minerals added ...

This must be the most ideal starting point for a soft water aquarium I've ever heard of coming out of a residential tap! (Adding in @dw1305 to get his comments.).

btw. I don't see anything about Calcium (CaCO3) or Mg btw, but it must be really, really low...



Cheers,
Michael
 
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LFNfan said:

Marchbank B, page 3.
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Thanks for the link @LFNfan. Yes, an average of 6.43 ppm of Calcium, 1.19 ppm of Mg... or 1.17 dGH... its incredible to see that some of the readings up there in the Scottish Highland go as low as 0.15 dGH (Badcaul) and many much below 1 dGH - thought that was only possible in tropical water ways or if you would draw drinking water from a glacier that typically sits around 20-40 ppm (40 - 80 uS/cm).

Cheers,
Michael
 
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LFNfan said:

Marchbank B, page 3.
Click to expand...

MichaelJ said:
Yes, an average of 6.43 ppm of Calcium, 1.19 ppm of Mg... or 1.17 dGH...
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The report above was for 2019, by 2021 it had gone even softer.
Screenshot_20240312_042113_Drive.jpg


@MummyW You have incredibly soft water, the perfect starting point for plant growth. However you will need to add a complete fertilizer for the plants and might also want to increase the water hardness a bit for the sake of the livebearers.

Regards the substrate, if you really wanted to change it you can syphon out small portions every week and just replace it with gravel.
 
Envious! You have wonderful water for Amazonian fish, or those from SE Asia....tetras and rasboras galore...

I know that most of our shop-bought tropical fish are many generations away from being wild, but, even so, your water would bring out their colours and behaviour quite pleasingly!
 
Yes, your water is fine. I’d probably just add a bit more sand at the back to create a slope. It wouldn’t hurt (aesthetically) to add some rocks too.

I’d suggest you add root tabs. I’d also suggest that you dose 10-20ml of TNC complete every week. Only dose that volume if you’re going to add some more plants. The easiest thing to do is look at the plants on the easy-medium lists on tropica etc and pick some you fancy. I suspect most of them will grow fine.

We have very similar water. Later today I’ll list the plants that have really thrived for me.
 
Hi all,
MummyW said:
Is this the information about our water I’m looking for?
Click to expand...
JohnCooke said:
Envious! You have wonderful water for Amazonian fish, or those from SE Asia....tetras and rasboras galore...
Click to expand...
MichaelJ said:
This is actually terrible water for livebearers that prefer harder waters
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Yes, that is really soft water, it is actually softer than the rainwater I get in S. England.

It is easy to <"add compounds to water">, but really difficult to remove them, so a water that is a <"blank slate"> is a great starting point. <"Those of us who have moved from liquid rock to soft water, are you surprised how easy is is to now grow plants?">

If you want to add some dGH & dKH you can use shell sand (pyo from the beach?) or <"oyster shell chick grit">.

cheers Darrel
 
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@MummyW You live somewhere near me if your WTW is Marchbank (Edinburgh). I have an enormous amount of fertiliser which I’m happy to give you some of. I have lots of floating plants which you’re welcome to a few too. They are really good at letting you know how much food is in your water.

I also have remineralising salts which you are also welcome to take some of.

EDIT: And I’m happy to show you how to use it all if you want. I’ve learned pretty much everything from this forum over the last few months. It’s a fantastic resource.
 
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