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Sump or canister?
- Thread starter Bambang
- Start date
Claire
Member
You should consider if you are wanting to inject co2 as this may sway your decision. Injecting co2 in a tank with an open sump means that you will lose a lot of the gas through the weir, but you can seal the sump to avoid this. This is obviously more work but is possible. The canister filters obviously avoid this problem.
James O
Member
The 2217 is good for tanks up to 600l. Yours will be about 240l. No matter how much foam/alfagrog/carbon/ceramic noodles etc you have the bacteria won't/can't grow larger than its food source (tank waste) allows. If you are planning on heavy planting then you need even less biological filtration. That leaves mechanical filtration that literally traps physical waste (dead leafs etc) and again you only need so much for 240l.
1x Eheim 2217 (or other) will be plenty
1x Eheim 2217 (or other) will be plenty
Yo-han
Member
Well, unlike James O, I don't believe in the recommomdations stated on the box and unless I only had 5 tetra's in an unplanted tank, I don't think I would use that filter for a 600L tank. Besides the fact whether more filter media gives better results or not (I do believe it does), more flow will definitely give better results in a planted tank. So I would go for 2 x 2217
Humbert
Member
2217 is rated @ 1000 lph, so in reality you'll get about half that.
you could try and see how things go with one filter first, but as you may know flow decreases as the hoses get dirty in time, if you want an external reactor that further decreases flow etc etc, so 2 X 2217 is what I recommend as well.
you could try and see how things go with one filter first, but as you may know flow decreases as the hoses get dirty in time, if you want an external reactor that further decreases flow etc etc, so 2 X 2217 is what I recommend as well.
Claire
Member
Yup, more flow is better than less! Especially as the plants grow in and start to block flow patterns.
James O
Member
Using a second 2217 to increase flow is like using a screwdriver as a hammer.......
It's the wrong tool
Why waste £120 on a second filter to create flow when a £50 koralia will do a better job?
Filter media is there for two jobs. 1) to physically remove waste. 2) to provide a site for bacteria that is your biological filtration. Having lots more media than your bacteria can possibly spread to means its just more mechanical filtration. 2217 already holds 6l of media. Organisms can't outgrow their food source (sadly we know what famine does) which is why the common recommendation for a planted tank is to remove some of the media (to increase flow) not add more.
It's the wrong tool
Why waste £120 on a second filter to create flow when a £50 koralia will do a better job?
Filter media is there for two jobs. 1) to physically remove waste. 2) to provide a site for bacteria that is your biological filtration. Having lots more media than your bacteria can possibly spread to means its just more mechanical filtration. 2217 already holds 6l of media. Organisms can't outgrow their food source (sadly we know what famine does) which is why the common recommendation for a planted tank is to remove some of the media (to increase flow) not add more.
Humbert
Member
@James O
that's true, I was thinking more about increased biological filtration than improving flow with a second filter.
I think plants' capacity to perform biological filtration tends to be overstated. I always had big plant mass, but the aquarium I have started doing really well (i.e. no algae) only after I doubled the biological filtration.
So I recommeded 2 filters primarily for the benefit of increased biological filtration and as an added bonus one gets extra flow as well.
I also discovered that it's best to have a reserve in terms of bio filtration: for example, you are fine with your current bio load, but one day there's a dead fish which you do not spot on time.
the decay of the fish causes a temporary ammonia spike and you could get algae just like that.
or your fish simply grow in time and they produce more waste, up to the point where your bio material can no longer cope.
but in the end it's indeed a matter of how many fish/ how big will be in this aquarium.
that's true, I was thinking more about increased biological filtration than improving flow with a second filter.
I think plants' capacity to perform biological filtration tends to be overstated. I always had big plant mass, but the aquarium I have started doing really well (i.e. no algae) only after I doubled the biological filtration.
So I recommeded 2 filters primarily for the benefit of increased biological filtration and as an added bonus one gets extra flow as well.
I also discovered that it's best to have a reserve in terms of bio filtration: for example, you are fine with your current bio load, but one day there's a dead fish which you do not spot on time.
the decay of the fish causes a temporary ammonia spike and you could get algae just like that.
or your fish simply grow in time and they produce more waste, up to the point where your bio material can no longer cope.
but in the end it's indeed a matter of how many fish/ how big will be in this aquarium.
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Thanks for the explanation on the filtration, but still i am gonna use 2x 2217. The first reason is because i am gonna run a chiller on one of the canister ( i live in tropical country) that might decreased the flow i think. Second is because i already have 2 canister so why don't just use it. The layout for this tank would be iwagumi layout with 1 type of foreground plant and maybe 20-30 schooling fish. So next question is should i place the in/out pipe at 1 side or both side?
@James O
2217 hold 6L of media, how many liter of media should i fill in? Is 4-5 liter would be enough?
@James O
2217 hold 6L of media, how many liter of media should i fill in? Is 4-5 liter would be enough?
roadmaster
Member
I use two Eheim 2217's on 300 litre low tech and intially just used the media that comes with each filter minus the black carbon pad.
I purchased extra three pack of the blue foam sponge's or pad's that come with the eheim classic's and just swap out dirty ones for clean ones when needed.
Currently running four blue coarse pad's in each filter with one homemade fine filtering pad on top.
In bottom of filter is about an inch and a half of the biomedia.
I purchased extra three pack of the blue foam sponge's or pad's that come with the eheim classic's and just swap out dirty ones for clean ones when needed.
Currently running four blue coarse pad's in each filter with one homemade fine filtering pad on top.
In bottom of filter is about an inch and a half of the biomedia.
James O
Member
Hey that's cheating! Your supposed to tell us you have them already I'd run them 3/4 full and not use the densest foam, to help with flow.
I'm pretty sure media should be: water in - mechanical - biological. Using bio media first means it' becomes mechanical filtration. Mechanical is physical. Bio is for the chemicals in the water itself. Bio media can't work properly clogged with tank detritus. The bacteria is trying to clean the water while also trying to digest the detritus that could be simply trapped by the mechanical media and removed.
I'd run them 3/4 full and not use the densest foam, to help with flow.I'm pretty sure media should be: water in - mechanical - biological. Using bio media first means it' becomes mechanical filtration. Mechanical is physical. Bio is for the chemicals in the water itself. Bio media can't work properly clogged with tank detritus. The bacteria is trying to clean the water while also trying to digest the detritus that could be simply trapped by the mechanical media and removed.
roadmaster
Member
Hey that's cheating! Your supposed to tell us you have them already
I'm pretty sure media should be: water in - mechanical - biological. Using bio media first means it' becomes mechanical filtration. Mechanical is physical. Bio is for the chemicals in the water itself. Bio media can't work properly clogged with tank detritus. The bacteria is trying to clean the water while also trying to digest the detritus that could be simply trapped by the mechanical media and removed.
I set up the Eheim as per one of two option's pictured on the box the filter's came in.
I only leave the biomedia in the bottom cause I tend to clean pad's aggressively and it is insurance.
