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Sump planning…

Loving this; I’m actually thinking I will sump a smaller tank and learn that way in the garage before I drop close to 5k on this system…. I know I will just make a mistake 🤷‍♂️ that doesn’t mean I won’t purchase an aquarium soon; just I’ll learn and do it myself when I do the 3x1x.6 in many years time.

What’s got stumped is I can’t really adjust the pipe/hole size once it’s drilled so I can’t say I can change much after the fact/without altering pressure ? As I’m not comfortable drilling 19mm glass, I can’t really save much money.

I have pretty much made my mind up that I’ll buy the Red Sea 850 something or other: The All-New REEFER-S

My plan would be to drill the sump with an overflow to drain, and then feed into the sump too.

Seems like a nice tank tbh
 
My plan would be to drill the sump with an overflow to drain, and then feed into the sump too.

As I mentioned in my previous post, as far as I can see, you can only have an overflow in a sump as an emergency measure - it can't be low enough to come into play during normal operation, otherwise it's going to cause you problems overflowing water when you don't want it to (such as pump 'off' situations). It can't be used for a drip feed water change system (with waste to overflow), if that is still your intention. So this . . .

I’m actually thinking I will sump a smaller tank and learn that way in the garage before I drop close to 5k on this system

. . . is a very good idea.
 
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As I mentioned in my previous post, as far as I can see, you can only have an overflow in a sump as an emergency measure - it can't be low enough to come into play during normal operation, otherwise it's going to cause you problems overflowing water when you don't want it to (such as pump 'off' situations). It can't be used for a drip feed water change system (with waste to overflow), if that is still your intention. So this . . ..


Yep, on my final “I’ve nailed this” drawing, it doesn’t work hahah. But I think I’ve got this solved now; basically I can’t have a sump in the traditional sense. But if I want to make use of the water volume - as in have that safety tank I came up with the following; I’m thinking now I’ll have a traditional overflow:

IMG_3754.jpeg


Having water drain into a filter sock and that’s the end of it 😅
 
I have to admit that I don't really follow that design? So is that an open pipe between the two sump tanks? If so, then its just the same as having a larger sump? The drip water change will still raise the water level to the overflow so that will be your operating water level, and a 'pump-off' condition will cause water to flow to the sump from the display tank and down the overflow, and when the pump turns back on your operating water level will be lower.
 
Yes this could be a large sump; but saw a couple of tanks which have dual sumps connected by pipe and for some reason I found this to be cool? 😅 could be a large tank.

Herbie overflows from display into sump tank which has an overflow; if I’m not introducing water this should effectively run just below the sumps overflow level. As I introduce more water the level in the sump will rise and overflow but the main tank level will still be that of the weir?

If pump is off; drip system will just overflow in the sump? The display tanks level will be just below the overflow and the sump should be just beneath overflow too

This is how I understand it anyway 😬
 
Yes, but you are missing the final step. When the pump comes back on, the water level in the display tank will rise to replace what has drained from it, but that in turn will lower the water level in the sump.

For redundancy and avoidance of flooding you need to consider two worst case scenarios:

1) the weir blocks and the return pump pumps all available water in the sump to the display tank until the pump compartment runs dry

You want to ensure that the display tank has capacity to take that additional water volume. Hence @zozo 's recommendation previously suggesting raising the pump up a bit in the sump, and running the water level above it to a volume that the display tank can take before the pump runs dry.

2) the display tank drains to is minimum physical point (this could be to the bottom of the weir, but if the weir fails, it could be to the bottom of any outlet holes cut in the tank walls)

You want to ensure that the sump has sufficient spare capacity to take this additional water. Now you are adding an overflow to the sump, essentially giving your sump infinite capacity, but also automatically draining away any excess water that flows from the display tank.

So lets say you want your usual water level in the display tank to be 25mm from the top rim. This is around 30 litres on a 180 x 70 tank.

Say for arguments sake you have a large 100 x 40 x 40 sump, and you don't have any dividers, so the water level is uniform through the entire sump. (This gives the largest capacity in this scenario - if you have dividers/ compartments, then this scenario is even worse).

To eliminate the risk of flooding the display tank, you run the sump water level just above the pump as @zozo explained in his post above. You know your display tank can only take 30 litres, so in your sump the water level needs to be no more than 7cm above your pump inlet (100 x 40 x 7 = 28 litres). So this is where you place your operating overflow for the continuous drip water change system.

Now you immediately have a bit of a problem.

Say when the pump goes off (say a power cut), you lose 2cm of water from your display tank (and this doesn't account for failure of the weir) - that's around 25 litres. That goes down to the sump, and out of the overflow. The pump then comes back on, and sends 25 litres back up to the display tank. The water level in your sump is now basically at the pump level, so it'll be drawing in air and dry run protection will kick in or the pump will burn out.

Now you could have the operating sump overflow higher than 7cm above the pump, but if your weir or drain pipes get blocked for any reason the display tank will flood.
 
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Yeah, you’re not wrong. Lifting the pump up a bit is a good shout. I think I’ve put too much faith in the overflow of the sump.

I can’t really see much of a safety net for if / when drains get blocked; that is a very worst case. At least in the current system. Don’t think I’m not listening or reading btw; I’m just trying to make what is said work for what I want 👍

I did design a system with two separate sumps; one for the filter and one for water level management. Maybe that is the way; but that’s also a lot of pipe.
 
Yeah, you’re not wrong. Lifting the pump up a bit is a good shout. I think I’ve put too much faith in the overflow of the sump.

I can’t really see much of a safety net for if / when drains get blocked; that is a very worst case. At least in the current system. Don’t think I’m not listening or reading btw; I’m just trying to make what is said work for what I want 👍

I did design a system with two separate sumps; one for the filter and one for water level management. Maybe that is the way; but that’s also a lot of pipe.

No worries, there's a lot to think about - I was planning mine for about a year to get it to work exactly as I wanted, but it's worth spending the time as mine has work without issue since I installed it - if you don't put enough time into the planning stage, you might end up having to make multiple adjustments later on which is a lot more painful.

There are a whole host of other electronic safety solutions you can consider too, to give you multiple redundancy points, but often simplest is the best.
 
Yeah you’re not wrong. The pressure at the moment comes with having buckets of water and fish all over the place 😅

It looks like I’ll attach a float switch to the tank; but that’s a hole very close to the top of the glass 😭
 
I’ve put the breaks on this a little, looking to order in the new year and that also gives me time to save up some money

Someone locally is selling a 60cm cube that will be my test run for simple overflow, drain and drip 👍 hoping to get the medaka in for the winter 🥶

I also wired up a vertical float on a 12v plug, to a relay to pump; works fine but need to make it a safer.
 
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