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'The Full Monty' Has Left The Building last photos

Just been feeding the discus so I thought I may as well take a couple of photos while I'm at it.

Here you go!

The Brown Diatomous algae is still present in places but I think I am on top of it, like I said some more of the Monte Carlos is going to have to go.

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You can still see some of the diatomous algae on the leaves of thsi plant...

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This is how thick the Monte Carlos is...

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Some recovery here...

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Discus looking for the Californian Blackworms...

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Cheers,

Steve
 
Hi All,

Some good news and some not so good news. The good news is I think I have finally got the brown diatoms on the back foot at last and things are looking better. The not so good news is I noticed over the last few days one or two of my discus looking a bit dark and slightly off their food so yesterday I decided to dose my tank with Kusuri Wormer Plus. I have used this before with no problems and all the discus were fine after a few days and eating back to normal.

At 11pm last night everything looked fine. I came home from work today and found one discus dead with a strange looking round brown coloured disc around the belly area on both sides. It looked like the type of mark left by a burn from say being trapped against a heater.

Anyway I checked all the other discus and they all looked fine and came out for food when I offered it. I fished the discus out and examined it. I decided to have a look inside the belly to see what was in it. Inside was just a brown disgustingly bad foul smelling mush. Here are some photographs to give you an idea. If anyone has any ideas what caused this please let me know.

Thanks,

Steve.

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None of the other fish were affected.

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:( I'm afraid I can't offer any helpful advice or incite, just sympathy. It's always a shame when a fish dies, and its often worse when the cause is unresolved. However you are getting on top of the diatoms and the tank is looking great, so that's something to be happy about.

Best of luck with finding the cause and keep persevering, you'll get their eventually mate.
 
If all the rest of the fish are happy, eating and have good looking feaces it probably is just an individual problem (to much stress from moving made an underlying disease/problem apparent). Always be carefull with dosing the whole tank without realy identifying the problem. If the individual is the problem a) move it to a small quarantine tank (50x50x50cm will do) and treat it in there or b) treat the animal with medicated feed or c) forcefeed it with some medication
 
The brown mush is probably down to the bacteria in the gut breaking down the intestines after death and not some horrible disease.
Sorry you lost one :(
 
Well guys,

The battle against the brown diatomous algae is just about over, and dare I say it looks like it has been won. I have had to have a rethink on the plants and also take some pretty drastic action. Firstly I have removed practically all of the Eleocharis Hair grass, the original bunches I planted I have removed and just left the odd bit of new growth which is spread quite thinly reaching into the sand at the front of the tank. This doesn't seem to be affected and doesn't catch or accumulate any debris in the tank. I have replaced in parts the Eleocharis with Echinodorus Tennellus which seems to be doing really well.

The next thing to go was the Monte Carlos, it was just melting underneath and not rooting properly even though I was trimming it. I have also removed a few pieces of rock that were not adding anything to the look of the tank. I have removed these to make room for more plants and fill in the gaps in the substrate. This will help increase the bio mass and stop the Corys stirring up the Amazonia Soil.

Now comes the biggy. In the last seven days I have done three 50% water changes and one 80% water change. And here is the other shock news, I have not added any chemicals whatsoever. I have stopped adding the Easy Carbo and the Flourish Excel, and...stopped adding the EI Ferts in the form of Macro Nutrients or TMC + Micro nutrients.:eek:

Yes, thats right absolutely nothing apart from Co2. Why have I done this I can hear you asking. Well I was at the Green Machine last weekend having a chat with my mate Jim about the diatomous algae. After some long discussion and hard discussion, the advice was to do a complete Water Column Reboot, get the water completely back to its basic element of H20 with nothing added.

The thought process behind this was based on the Aquatic Triangle of Water, Light, and Nutrients. By a simple process of elimination we decided that there was nothing wrong with the water change regime, the water was going through a HMA filter and the filtration in the tank was sufficient, the Eheim PlantGro tubes and the Guisemann Aqua Flora Tubes are more than adequate to provide enough quality light for a planted tank. So there was just the final part of the triangle, the nutrients.

Jim knows I have been using EI Dosing methods and he knows if you get the balance right people are getting good results with it, so no real argument there. However Jim is a firm believer that if the balance isn't right, it can cause you all sort of problems. So between us we decided to do a trial, an experiment to prove one way or another what was causing my problems.

The reason for the high volume and high frequency water changes was to completely remove everything from the water column until the water was neutral, i.e. absolutely no Nitrates, phosphates, or trace of any kind whatsover. Each time I did the water change I tested the Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia levels. I always had zero ammonia and zero nitrite levels, but the phosphates and nitrates were always off the scale, so I kept doing the water changes until the tests came up bright yellow instead of dark orange bordering on dark red.

Once I got the water to this stage we agreed on doing a trial using half dose only of Tropica Balanced Fertiliser which basically means 25 ml once a week, adding some Sera Mineral salts and some Sera KH plus to buffer the PH and make sure the CO2 was being triggered. Keep the lighting period to 6 hours maximum with only one set of lights on for the first week.

It is early days but so far things are looking very good, the plants have started to pearl again, the discus fish are out a lot more and there is no sign of any diatomous algae, any that was still in the tank has died, the staurgyrene is showing signs of recovery and the altananthera reineckii mini is starting to flourish again.

So what was the problem? I don't think it is fair to say the blame lies solely with EI Dosing, I firmly believe that I got the dosing regime completely wrong, and most probably was not getting the mixture of the dry ferts in the right proportion, and then probably overdosing the tank. I know EI is supposed to be Estimative Index, but in my case I am sure I was putting a mixture in that was far too high in concentration.

So for the time being I am going to give this a month with the Tropica Fertiliser, standard large water change once a week and monitor the situation to see how it goes. I have not taken any photos yet, but I wll try and post some up at the end of each week so we can see for ourselves the difference it makes and monitor the results.

Cheers and thanks to everyone who has helped and given advice so far, even if I didn't always follow it:(

Steve.
 
Hi all,
Yes, thats right absolutely nothing apart from Co2............By a simple process of elimination we decided that there was nothing wrong with the water change regime, the water was going through a HMA filter and the filtration in the tank was sufficient, the Eheim PlantGro tubes and the Guisemann Aqua Flora Tubes are more than adequate to provide enough quality light for a planted tank. So there was just the final part of the triangle, the nutrients..... Each time I did the water change I tested the Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia levels. I always had zero ammonia and zero nitrite levels, but the phosphates and nitrates were always off the scale, so I kept doing the water changes until the tests came up bright yellow instead of dark orange bordering on dark red........Once I got the water to this stage we agreed on doing a trial using half dose only of Tropica Balanced Fertiliser which basically means 25 ml once a week, adding some Sera Mineral salts and some Sera KH plus to buffer the PH and make sure the CO2 was being triggered. Keep the lighting period to 6 hours maximum with only one set of lights on for the first week.
First the normal disclaimer that I've never used added CO2 or EI, and I can't see a time when I ever will, but....

If you have reduced the nutrients down to nothing you can turn off the CO2, mainly because the plant mass won't deplete as much CO2 from the water column as they would when they were in active growth. Although the plants will have stored some excess nutrients within their tissues they won't be able to make use of the extra CO2, mainly because at least one of the mineral nutrients will be limiting growth.

You honestly can't rely on test kits, no-one really knows what they are measuring. Basically if you are a water company with a dedicated lab. and millions of pounds of equipment (ISE, AAS, GLC, HPLC, MS) you can measure a specific set of water parameters accurately. Even bodies like the Environment Agency don't rely on chemical testing (for nitrate you need to use cadmium reduction colorimetry), or portable kit like ion selective electrodes, they look at a combination of Biotic Index and 5 day BOD test to assess the broader category of "water quality".

You can use a TDS meter (so really a conductivity meter) to give you an accurate measure of the total number of ions in solution. If you start with RO you have ~5 microS conductivity (or 3 ppm TDS) and as you add any salts conductivity will rise in a linear manner. Personally I don't routinely measure anything, but I occasionally dip the conductivity meter into the tanks in the lab., and into the rain water that I use for water changes.

Because I keep soft water fish and have hard, but clean, tap water, I can mix together rain, tap and RO water to keep the tanks at about 70 - 120 microS (60 ppm TDS). I choose ~100 microS because it seems to work OK and it is an average value for our rain-water over the year. In the summer the rain water might be ~130 microS and in the winter ~50 microS, which would mean cutting the water with RO or tap respectively. The only time I've ever run out of rain water I just mixed RO and tap to ~100 microS.

It doesn't matter what fertilizer you use, you can use a calculator like the one on Ardjuna's <"Nature Aquarium" web site>, or <"James' Planted Tank"> to adjust your nutrients to any level you like. If you really do find a sweet spot measure the conductivity over the week and then use that as indicator. I originally started intending to do this, but soon realized that I'm too shoddy a fish keeper to keep this up successfully for long.

It was at this point that I became aware that I it made more sense to use the health of the plants as a measure of tank health, and that if I used a floating plant it took CO2 availability out of the equation.

If the plants are a healthy green and in relatively slow growth things are fine, if they are yellow and not growing I need to add some nutrients, and if they are deep green, growing well and looking extremely healthy I need to measure the conductivity, and if it is raised, change some more water and look for the reason (dead fish etc).

Once the tank is grown in and the plant mass is fairly large you don't get much algae with this approach, and you definitely don't get rapid algae "outbreaks".

cheers Darrel
 
Hi Darrel,

Thanks very much for the insight and useful comments about the Co2, that is advice I will follow. Regarding TDS, I measured this using a fairly bog standard TDS Meter I bought and the tank water measures 237 TDS, no idea what that is in Microsiemens though. The TDS of my tap water is 90 TDS, zero DKH and GH. I am using the HMA Filter, do I really need an RO filter?

The only other question I have is whether or not to add iron, (Easy Ferro) for the plants especially the red plants?

Otherwise I am quite happy to leave well enough alone.

Cheers,

Steve.
 
Hi all,
Steve 237 ppm TDS would equate to about 400 microS. It would depend on what constant the meter uses to convert the conductivity that it measures into an estimated ppm TDS, but it is usually 0.62 (although a few meters use 0.50). Cheap TDS meter are OK, and usually give an accurate reading.

If your tap water is naturally soft the water company will add both orthophosphate (PO4---) and NaOH to the water. This is to reduce the risk of lead (Pb) and copper (Cu) dissolving from old pipes, the phosphate forms insoluble compounds with most metals, and the NaOH addition raises the pH.

Because this gives you soft alkaline water, with-out any carbonate buffering or dGH, you will need to buffer the tap water up a little bit. You can use a propriety mix, or make your own from "Epsom salts" (MgSO4.7H2O), calcium chloride (CaCl) and potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). The other option is a small amount of "Oyster shell chick grit" in a bag in the filter, it doesn't give you fine control but it works OK., and it is a cheap option. You would be adding magnesium (Mg) to the water anyway with your fertilizer addition.

Whether you use the RO filter is really up to you. Because your water is soft you would get a high yield to waste ratio, and you wouldn't need much RO to cut your HMA treated tap with. I'd be tempted to go 50:50 HMA:RO.

Plants don't need much iron (Fe), if it is in your trace mix you don't need to add any extra.

cheers Darrel
 
Hello Darrell,

Dare I say it, but the tank is looking better today than it has for some time. Maybe at last I have confirmed what was wrong. Thanks for the tips on the salts and ferts above, I have added some and got a really stable DKH of 4 and PH of 6.8. The thing is my GH readings are still coming out as zero, do I need to do something about this?

Pictures to follow soon.

Thanks,

Steve.
 
Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in getting some new photographs up on this journal. A little thing called 'work' and 'Christmas Shopping' has got in the way of me keeping this up to date.

You will be pleased to know that the 'Back to Basics' plan has worked. It has proved 100% that I was getting things wrong with my EI Dosing regime. Not saying that EI Dosing is wrong, just that if as in my case you get the calculations wrong problems can occur. Since my last post I have carried on with the new regime of one 50% water change per week using my HMA filter and only adding SERA KH Plus and the Tropica Fertiliser I got from Jim at the Green Machine at 30mls per week. I just need to work out the best way of buffering the GH which is still low.

The overall effect of this is that all algae, not just the brown diatomous algae has completely dissapeared. As well as the ammonia and nitrite readings being zero, my nitrate readings are showing yellow to light orange which is less than 12.5 mg/litre. Previously the readings for nittrate and phosphate were completely off the scale, and I thought this was normal. :eek: Just adding the Tropica Fertiliser once a week after the water change is working for me at the moment, and I can have the lights on longer which gets the plants photosynthesising nicely.

I have still got the internal UV Filter going inside the aquarium, but to be honest I am only using this now for the oxygenating feature at night time. I am not convinced that the UV has had anything to do with the recovery, but it certainly hasn't done any harm.

So here we go, photos as promised. These are the photos one week after going back to basics, there are more to come from this week. Any white fuzzy bits are the oxygen bubbles in the water

Cheers,

Steve.
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Hi All,

Just a quick update. Last week I removed the internal UV filter from the tank to see whether there was any change. Within two days I noticed something about the water quality. Despite doing big weekly water changes the water had a different look about it, not as clear as it has been for the last few weeks. Now I can't say if this is definitley down to the removal of the UV element of the equation, or if it was the removal of the additional oxygenating feature that came with the filter.

I did add two air stones and connected them up to an air pump which came on via a timer at around midnight, but this does not seem to be having the same effect as the oxygenating feature that came with the internal UV filter, so a bit of a conundrum really.

On another note I have been scouring the forums and reading anything on the internet about the Twinstar Super S with its fancy features. I can get it for £139.00 from the Green Machine, or £149.00 from All Pond Solutions. I know the Iceman has got one of these in his tank, is anyone else using one and how is it going, recommended or not. I am either going to get one or put the internal UV back in because things are not the same regardless of whether it is the UV or the oxygenating feature.

Thanks,

Steve.
 
My missus has asked me what I want from Santa this year and I am torn between the Twinstar Super S at £139.00, or a V2 Pure RO system with built in TDS meter at around £130.00, or an Arcadia Stretch LED light at around £100.00.

I have got a HMA Filter which I hook up to the mixer tap in the kitchen, turn the thermostat down on the combi boiler to 29 degrees and do my water changes with that. It is quick and easy but not entirely convinced on the water quality coming through the HMA filter though, that's why I was thinking of the RO Unit. I am not keen on the amount of water wasted from RO Units or the hassle of filling up containers, heating it to the right temperature, humping them over the tank and pouring them into the tank.

I am having second thoughts on the Arcadia Stretch, the lighting I have got is more than adequate, I think I just wanted a different light spectrum with a sharper crisper look, hence the thought of going down the LED route.

So that just leaves the Twinstar??

A good PDF document with loads aof FAQ's can be found here.

http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/media/pdf/TWINSTAR.pdf
 
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Perhaps you can ask Santa for a raincheck/delay, just to wait and see how it all works out. You don't need RO or more light, and the twinstar for me feels like a panacea ("a mythical cue-all").Better to wait and see if you realy need it or just want a new toy, just my 2 €cts;)
 
Perhaps you can ask Santa for a raincheck/delay, just to wait and see how it all works out. You don't need RO or more light, and the twinstar for me feels like a panacea ("a mythical cue-all").Better to wait and see if you realy need it or just want a new toy, just my 2 €cts;)

Cheers Edvet,

Finally decided my lighting is sufficient and the HMA filter seems to be doing okay for now so it looks like the Twinstar Super S it is.

I will keep everyone updated on how it goes.

Cheers,

Steve.
 
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