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The Nymph's Spring (EA900)

Hello @shangman,

You don’t know me at all but I have been reading along and I feel sorry your fish tank situation. Just had to react now to say that I really agree with your mum (yeah I know very creepy). I would never let a situation like this carry on. As you wrote it takes a toll mentally and definitely reduces the enjoyment of the hobby, to zero perhaps? Then there is a risk of cross-contaminating your other aquariums while this lasts, and a (probably very small?) risk of you or your family members getting infected and becoming ill.

Anyhow, don’t take my words too seriously, there are more experienced advisors here. Take care!
 
If you think it's time, it's time. You have no duty to others to draw things out in order to document it. It is perhaps best for both you and the fish to take that step now, with the full support of us here.

I've had to euthanise very special fish and it hurts but at least we are able to do the best for them when that time comes. We take on the responsibility of caring for them and sometimes that means ending any potential suffering.
 
If it wasn't for the catching it myself thing, I could much more easily continue and put up with it and fight it with more vigour. Or if it was in a smaller, lowtech tank that I didn't need to do constant big waterchanges and maintenance on it almost daily. Though if I think about it, to be honest in a tank like that I would've taken it all down already, I think I have just been delaying the agony cos I'm attached. Last night I found my male apisto hiding vertically right in the back corner amongst some echinodorus leaves, he looked dead until I moved the leaves and he swam off. He didn't come and eat dinner. Plus the pygmy cory with this big white thing on it, not good signs.

Now I can see that fish are still suffering from it and not looking healthy as they should be, I think it is time. Just because I can't see all the symptoms overtly doesn't mean they aren't there. I do worry that they are already suffering. I don't want to need jabs or strong months-long antibiotics because of my hobby, even if it's a small chance, I've already had bad luck having it in the tank in the first place! Seems like not a risk worth taking. Every sick fish feels like it's just confirming the threat, just confirming the doom of it. I think it is time. Planning on doing it on Good Friday for symbolism or something idk. Then a few days of cleaning everything EXTREMELY thoroughly. I miss the fun and joy of the tank. Will be taking lots of photos this week and try and get it to look as nice as possible before taking it down.

Thank you guys for all your kind thoughts and well wishes and support, it has made this whole ordeal much less awful. Should I close this journal after this and start a new one with a new scape? Or carry on with this one? That seems sad to me too tbh.

The Miniaturist said:
I don't think it's silly, I would have hoped for some relief from the fish becoming sick after setting up the UV steriliser, euthanasing all the pencils and changing the sand and botanicals but it looks as though the infection is deeply embedded.
It's easier to give someone advice about what they should do than stand in front of your own tank & make the same decision after putting so much time & energy into it's creation. I know I would find it a real struggle.
Describing it as destroying the tank implies violence & you're not breaking it apart you're helping the fish pass without struggling & suffering.
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I know I could wait and maybe some fish would be ok, but it would be at the expense of many of the fish suffering. Getting the results back from the vet and seeing how absolutely riddled the pencils were, they must have been suffering for a while even if the obvious symptoms only appeared a day or two before testing. I know that I am so close that I can't see the whole situation tbh, I really value everyone's advice on it, I have noticed how many people would just start again. To take it down is sad but it has also been really beautiful and I have learnt so much from it, I'll take many ideas and lessons from it into future tanks.

Hufsa said:
Your mental and physical health is priority number one, and we stand behind you no matter which route you go for. The mental toll and added physical risk of a lengthy process is definitely a consideration
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Big hugs Hufsa, thank you for being so lovely during all of this <3 It is just grim all the time. I miss the frolicking fish and experimentation with plants. And being able to shove my hand in and rearrange twigs. We will get back to it very soon though.

Laoshan said:
Hello @shangman,

You don’t know me at all but I have been reading along and I feel sorry your fish tank situation. Just had to react now to say that I really agree with your mum (yeah I know very creepy). I would never let a situation like this carry on. As you wrote it takes a toll mentally and definitely reduces the enjoyment of the hobby, to zero perhaps? Then there is a risk of cross-contaminating your other aquariums while this lasts, and a (probably very small?) risk of you or your family members getting infected and becoming ill.

Anyhow, don’t take my words too seriously, there are more experienced advisors here. Take care!
Click to expand...

I have seen you posting on UKAPS before :) And not creepy to agree with my mum lol, she is right. Once she said it last night I knew it, it's a fair judgement. When it's laid out clearly as you have, it is obvious. And honestly, this whole ordeal really has removed the enjoyment. I've been furiously looking at other lovely tanks and imagining what I might do next so I can feel some excitement rather than dread, but it doesn't work that well. You guys do make me feel better, but I would rather be showing you fabulous things than endless stories about all the horrifying things my fish are suffering of. It just needs to be done.

mort said:
If you think it's time, it's time. You have no duty to others to draw things out in order to document it. It is perhaps best for both you and the fish to take that step now, with the full support of us here.

I've had to euthanise very special fish and it hurts but at least we are able to do the best for them when that time comes. We take on the responsibility of caring for them and sometimes that means ending any potential suffering.
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You're right as always Mort. It is unfortunately close to putting my cat down last month, it's not something I want to do but it is necessary to stop the suffering and give the final kindness we can to our creatures. Next time I'll do what I can to avoid this again, but it has sort of taught me that sometimes bad luck just gets you.
 
Karmicnull said:
I have to say I think you've been incredibly strong through this. Full of admiration for how you're taking the learning and looking forward rather than being beaten down by the experience. I hope I can manage to do the same if ever I'm in a similar situation.
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Thank you Karmicnull that's lovely for you to say. Weirdly I feel more dedicated to the hobby than ever before. With this hobby it's clear that experience is so important and knowledge hard-won, I have learn so much from this, and how I should approach things in the future to hopefully mitigate it (and find new problems to deal with inevitably!). Every tank is an experiment, and hopefully eventually I get to a place where my experiments last a long time and are very stable, but I guess I'm not there yet! It has helped so much to be part of a community with all this support, if I didn't have anywhere to vent and commiserate about it I think it would be much more depressing and easy to give up.

So it's on to the next experiment(s) I suppose. I'm currently being mad and planning 3 scapes for this tank, 2 intended to just last a few months and be cheap, and the third to last several years. All really fun, all about learning as much as possible and doing something different. Do some things that make it worth changing it up.

I'm thinking of starting with a seasonal pond tank, and only growing pond plants in it to see what that's like. Cold water, something like Shrimpery on instagram. Maybe will keep my ricefish in there, or some other fish which can live in my above-ground garden pond afterwards. I'm not too sure on the details yet, it's just the start of an idea, but I think it sounds intriguing and worth trying.
 
I think that, as heartbreaking as it is, this is probably the right decision. It seems that an ongoing slow loss of fish is possibly inevitable and that is not good for you or for them. The risk of catching TB and potential consequences of that is also not something anyone would want to face.

The toughest but is still to come I’m sure but hopefully will allow you to move forward in a positive way.

As @Karmicnull said, you’ve been a real stalwart through all of this so keep ur chin up hon and anything we can do to help, just shout. 😊
 
Honestly I feel your pain with how you have lost the fish and witnessed the slow decline of the other inhabitants.
I went thru something similar experience many years ago. When a black paradise fish infected a 4foot tank with Camallanus worms. And had to make the tough decision to euthanise the whole tank. it was not easy to watch the fish suffer etc.
And like with TB you have to scrap everything, as the worms get into everything.
I must say though the way you have laid things bare for everyone to see, is not something everyone can do. So I commend you for it. And Wish you all the best in the coming days
 
Well the deed is done and it was very grim, but just about doable. It sucked up all my energy out though, I did it around lunchtime, and then had to rest for the rest of the day to recover from it. So I still have to clean all the filters and pipes and do the bleach and stuff but I will do it tomorrow. Much chocolate had been eaten!!!

This evening I feel sort of punched in the stomach but also a sense of relief too. I think it was the right thing to do, a lot of them didn't seem to be really eating in the last week, the change in behaviour was marked. I took some pictures yesterday, I suppose I will post later this week to ~end~ this journal. You'll have to join me in the next one!

KirstyF said:
I think that, as heartbreaking as it is, this is probably the right decision. It seems that an ongoing slow loss of fish is possibly inevitable and that is not good for you or for them. The risk of catching TB and potential consequences of that is also not something anyone would want to face.

The toughest but is still to come I’m sure but hopefully will allow you to move forward in a positive way.

As @Karmicnull said, you’ve been a real stalwart through all of this so keep ur chin up hon and anything we can do to help, just shout. 😊
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This is all exactly right. I just realised it's better to accept the nasty bit of bad luck I've had, and move on. The fish shouldn't suffer, and I did it as humanly as I could. Thank you for your support ♥️♥️

Gill said:
Honestly I feel your pain with how you have lost the fish and witnessed the slow decline of the other inhabitants.
I went thru something similar experience many years ago. When a black paradise fish infected a 4foot tank with Camallanus worms. And had to make the tough decision to euthanise the whole tank. it was not easy to watch the fish suffer etc.
And like with TB you have to scrap everything, as the worms get into everything.
I must say though the way you have laid things bare for everyone to see, is not something everyone can do. So I commend you for it. And Wish you all the best in the coming days
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It's good to know that it does happen tbh, although every story is awful and I'm very sorry you had to do that!

Tbh if I can gleam any usefulness from this for others that is great, I want to harvest every silver lining to this massive grey cloud. Even if it's just to document more the emotions and experiences that come along with having an aquarium which are not always talked about.
 
I think you have shown how strong you are & how caring towards the tank inhabitants to have taken them out & ended their lives respectfully to save them suffering further.
Yes it is an end & a sad one to 'The Nymph's Spring' but I feel anyone who has read & enjoyed your journal will be looking forward now for the next one whenever you feel ready to continue.
Chocolate & tea can help sustain you in most situations!
 
You’ve done the right thing.

It’s great how you’ve recorded the whole process that others can learn from in the future.

I’m sure you’re next set up will be as great if not better than this one. I still couldn’t believe how good the last one was when I realised how long you’ve been keeping fish. You’ve certainly got an eye for it.

Cheers
 
seedoubleyou said:
Glad you’ve closed the book on this one mate and can now move forward with a new venture.

You’ve done the right thing and don’t need any of us to tell you so.

Looking forward to your next journal !!
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Thank you, I'm feeling very relieved today that it is over tbh. I have a plan to start a new journal tomorrow, feels fitting to end this tank on Good Friday and start a new one on Easter Sunday - death, ressurection, life, all that jazz. I am looking forward to the excitement of planning a new one, kinda need it after this low!! Researching a new tank is so fun

The Miniaturist said:
I think you have shown how strong you are & how caring towards the tank inhabitants to have taken them out & ended their lives respectfully to save them suffering further.
Yes it is an end & a sad one to 'The Nymph's Spring' but I feel anyone who has read & enjoyed your journal will be looking forward now for the next one whenever you feel ready to continue.
Chocolate & tea can help sustain you in most situations!
Click to expand...
I am glad they will not suffer any more now, honestly it was so depressing watching them die one by one of all sorts of things, knowing it could continue for months and months. As a friend of mine said, at least if the tank went down, it went down dramatically with a super rare condition and an interesting story. Never a dull moment I suppose!

I will set up a new journal v soon. I would like to rescape quite quickly, and I also have another nano tank that's doing quite well which was set up in February with my dad. This whole stuff has taken up so much energy that I just couldn't be bothered to post about it, it's been my little bowl of calm and it looks very cute. There is more to come :)
 
A note on cleaning, for anyone in the future who has to clean a tank of FishTB/mycobacterium. I got these instructions from a friend on Instagram who has had to do this himself, and I think works in a lab.

The target for total disinfection using bleach only is 800ppm- which can be tested using a chlorine test kit as the chlorine will be used up by organic matter. But it would be better to overdose than underdose and not worry about testing.

It will depend what strength bleach you use (don’t use any that has a scent and ideally a thin bleach which won’t have detergents) a 2.75% bleach dose 20ml per litre roughly for 24hours should be plenty to kill everything. If you follow this up by letting the tank/equipment dry out completely before reusing it will help further.

The only thing you’ll want to be careful with are the rubber O ring seals on any canister filters etc. as they may weaken in bleach just something to bear in mind!

So first I've cleared the tank of all the stuff, and the filters of all media. Next I'm washing the inside and outside of the tank, cabinet, pipes, lily pipes, filters and all over equipment and wiping them with bleach solution, and then water. Next, I'm resetting up the whole system, filling the tank with the bleach solution given above (though my bleach is 5% so have adjusted for that), and I will run the tank with filters and UV for a day to clear everything out. Here I will throw away all filter media/sponges, buckets, hoses and nets I have, and put all equipment I'm keeping in the tank with the bleach for that day. Then the tank and whole system gets drained of bleach, and everything goes outside to dry fully in the sun. After a few days, it goes back in, filled with clean water and a lot of dechlorinator and will run for a few days, until I'm ready to rescape. Will fully drain again here.
 
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There we are. Yesterday we sadly said goodbye to the fish, today we say goodbye - and good riddance - to the FishTB. Tiny bit of sand left, but it looks like more here than reality, I'm pretty sure the 2 litres of bleach I added will take care of anything too lmao. Along with the tank inside and out, all filters and pipes were cleaned, do the flow is hilariously strong and the UV is on all the time. I think I could've done with less flow in the tank tbh, I feel like maybe 1 filter is enough for a tank my size.

When the bleach wash is over I'll do another tank clean to get it a bit more spotless, it'll really get those stubborn bits of algae that usually I can't be bothered to clean off.

You guys are so kind ♥️♥️♥️ Love UKAPS ♥️♥️♥️ you already did so much helping me with the vet fees!

To be honest I don't think I'm up to apistos or even a tropical SA tank yet, it feels weird to try something so similar again immediately. I want to be distracted by something really different rather than reminded cos I am sad about it. That pretty much was my ideal tropical tank, I don't think I could do it again unless it was... Bigger 😂 so I could really get proper sized groups of fish, BigTom-style. I will come back to it again but not for now. I want to forget this grimness a bit. Also I spent loads of money on that tank thinking about it as a longer term thing that was fine, (especially plants I felt I had a nice collection) and I can't be sinking that much into it again that soon! ... Another thing a lot of us don't talk about tbh 👀 Not that I regret it, but it feels right to be cheap and experimental, quick on my feet. Maybe do several different simpler but interesting scapes a few months apart to try things out before settling on a new long term scape.
 
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