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Twinstar S v. Kessil
- Thread starter Siege
- Start date
Wookii
Member
Just seen this video of @George Farmer on the newer Kessel, but not a lot of detail on colour rendition:
@George Farmer do you have any feedback on the colour rendition of the A360X versus the A360WE and other lights such as the Twinstar?
@George Farmer do you have any feedback on the colour rendition of the A360X versus the A360WE and other lights such as the Twinstar?
Wookii
Member
As an update to my posts above, I contacted Kessil. They told me that the A360X Refugium wasn't really suitable for a main tank light, as it lacked the main white lights.
However they did tell me that the A360X Tuna Sun actually has reserve red and amber LED chips that are a) switched off by default, and b) can only be switched on using the X-Controller or the app (via the wifi dongle).
So out of the box, on 100% intensity and irrespective of the colour temperature set on the light itself, these LED's won't be switched on. It might mean that colour rendition can be improved by turning up these spare red and amber LED's. I have no idea how much impact on colour rendition these are likely to have though.
However they did tell me that the A360X Tuna Sun actually has reserve red and amber LED chips that are a) switched off by default, and b) can only be switched on using the X-Controller or the app (via the wifi dongle).
So out of the box, on 100% intensity and irrespective of the colour temperature set on the light itself, these LED's won't be switched on. It might mean that colour rendition can be improved by turning up these spare red and amber LED's. I have no idea how much impact on colour rendition these are likely to have though.
Richard40
Member
Has anyone bought any of these and tried them out?
Zeus.
Fertz Meister
I have kessil 160 tuna suns and a twinstar, but not on same tank.
Twinstar more even light, kessils x4 spot lights but I do like the shimmer.
Twinstar more even light, kessils x4 spot lights but I do like the shimmer.
Richard40
Member
Does anyone have the A360X Tuna sun lights? I’ve a Twinstar but do like the shimmer on the Kessil like you say Zeus.
I’d also like to hear from others with the A360x Tuna Sun. I can’t find very much info anywhere.
I currently use the Kessil A360WE tuna sun and am looking for something that brings out more of the reds and purples. I love the Kessil shimmer but can’t determine if the new A360x is that much better; I’m looking for something that can get me closer to the ADA solar RGB. The spectrum chart for the 360x doesn’t look that much different than that of the 360we—and certainly not what we see with rgb lights in general (and the way they show the chart with multiple lines for each color is different than how other companies show their spectrum charts—and confusing to me as a non light expert.
I really want the A360x to work and be great, just not sure that it will. I certainly don’t want to spend the money and end up with essentially the same light that I have today (A360WE), just in a smaller package.
I’m also reluctant to get the solar rgb because of the form factor, limited controllability, and lack of shimmer. But, if that’s the only way to get deep color saturation then I’ll pursue it. Just hard to proceed with such limited information.
Oh, and I have an ADA 120P, so I’ll need to double down on whatever light I choose, which makes it more important for me to choose wisely.
I currently use the Kessil A360WE tuna sun and am looking for something that brings out more of the reds and purples. I love the Kessil shimmer but can’t determine if the new A360x is that much better; I’m looking for something that can get me closer to the ADA solar RGB. The spectrum chart for the 360x doesn’t look that much different than that of the 360we—and certainly not what we see with rgb lights in general (and the way they show the chart with multiple lines for each color is different than how other companies show their spectrum charts—and confusing to me as a non light expert.
I really want the A360x to work and be great, just not sure that it will. I certainly don’t want to spend the money and end up with essentially the same light that I have today (A360WE), just in a smaller package.
I’m also reluctant to get the solar rgb because of the form factor, limited controllability, and lack of shimmer. But, if that’s the only way to get deep color saturation then I’ll pursue it. Just hard to proceed with such limited information.
Oh, and I have an ADA 120P, so I’ll need to double down on whatever light I choose, which makes it more important for me to choose wisely.
Wookii
Member
The only type of lights that are going to give you that colour rendition are those that have the three channel RGB LED’s and don’t incorporate any white LED’s.
The only brand that I’m aware of that offers these in a fully controllable form are Chihiros.
There you have the choice of the WRGB II or the Vivid II.
Although I’ve not tried the A360WE, I did loan an A360X. I thought it’s colour rendition was pretty poor - very yellow. To get rid of most of the yellow you have to turn off the warm white LED’s and at that point the output is very low.
Of the pendant style lights the AI Primes are far better than the Kessils in terms of both colour rendition and noise output.
Even then though the Prime can’t get close to the colour rendition of the RGB LED based lights. Once you’ve experienced those, it’s hard to go back to anything else.
Zeus.
Fertz Meister
The Chihiros RGB Vivid is worthing considering IMO
Thank you for the detailed response Wookii and the Chihiros recommendation Zeus. Really appreciate it.
Chihiros is a brand that I'd like to explore, but they're not widely available in the U.S. as far as I can tell.
I guess it's official: I'll just "have to" move on to the ADA Solar RGB. There are worse things in life
Chihiros is a brand that I'd like to explore, but they're not widely available in the U.S. as far as I can tell.
I guess it's official: I'll just "have to" move on to the ADA Solar RGB. There are worse things in life
Wolf6
Member
What made you rule out the twinstar S? Just asking because I'm facing the same questions about lightingI guess it's official: I'll just "have to" move on to the ADA Solar RGB. There are worse things in life
The ADA solars lack of controlability weighs heavily in my own considerations, meaning I'm leaning more towards the twinstar S or the chihiros.
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rebel
Member
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- 4 Aug 2015
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RGB lights would win the aesthetic battle I think. But it's important to compare if possible. It has to be a sponsored video though. Who can afford such expensive lights otherwise?
rebel
Member
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This is what I call Royal BS. Crippled hardware unless you buy more.
What made you rule out the twinstar S? Just asking because I'm facing the same questions about lighting
Great question. I prefer the ADA over Twinstar for a few reasons. First, I think they look more appealing from a design perspective, which is important because the tank is placed in a prominent area within the house. Second, I like the color spectrum of the ADA better. The Twinstar seems a bit more purple to me (vs ADA). Third, the ADA reflects white light on the water (ie, I don’t see the individual R, G, and B lights reflected on the water like I do with the twinstars I’ve seen). Finally, I think ADAs are built to last longer and hold their value better. I just want to suck it up, write one admittedly painful check and be done with it.
Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t think think Kessil’s intent was to nickel and dime by limiting these features to the controller/app. They seem to value three things above all else: the core spectrum, simplicity, and scale. Their core spectrum did not change significantly (much to my dismay), so the additional customization would have required more dials—complicating the design and creating problematic manufacturing differences between the tuna sun and tuna blue models. I’m guessing their core market for this is not us—but the more mainstream freshwater crowd that want something simple and bright that’s also built well. And to the extent they support the freshwater crowd, they want to reuse as much of the tuna blue parts as they can.
The question I have is why they didn’t use their IP to crest an RGB type light. Why are they sticking with all those white / yellow diodes? Given how tightly they’re clustered, I would assume they could have individual r, g, and b diodes that blend into a great white light that still hits the core spectrum values we care about, while also delivering that shimmer. I would be first in line for that. I’m guessing the reason they don’t is that it would require extra R&D that isn’t justified to support the aquascaping fringe of the freshwater world. Sigh...
rebel
Member
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Money is king. They will do it when chihiros take majority of their customers.
And just look at their hideous wires that can't be routed through their own stand? They are taking the aquarists for a joke.
Jayefc1
Member
Wookii
Member
Yes, comparing lights isn't a cheap hobby, but at least with LED's, once you've made a decision, the chosen light should last a very light time.
I acquired several lights second hand, just to test them out against the Fluval Plant 3.0 I already had, on the premise I could sell off the unused lights without much loss. So far I've compared:
Fluval Plant 3.0
Kessil A360X
AI Prime Freshwater
Twinstar S
Chihiros WRGB II
Chihiros Vivid II
Wookii
Member
I think it's just an evolutionary thing. They are using existing hardware and respinning it from the Marine market to the Freshwater market, so the advent of wifi and blue-tooth control is something they have had to add as an afterthought.
As I say, the AI Prime is a much better light all round, higher output, integrated control, very sleek design, near silent fan etc
Wookii
Member
I suspect its a matter of light output. For some reason white LED's just put out a lot more light than individual red, green and blue LED's. They're also much easier to implement I guess.
That's all changed with the advent of these RGB LED's used in the Chihiros and ADA lights, which seem to deliver very high output on all three channels.
You can even source individual RGB LED from Cree (I think) with a 30W output per LED. If a manufacturer could utilise 2-4 of those in a small fan cooled pendant fitting like the Kessils or Primes it could give the ideal small form factor and shimmer, combined with high output RGB chip colour rendition.
