What all in one recipe?

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by B4M, 6 Oct 2008.

  1. B4M

    B4M Member

    Messages:
    61
    Hi,

    I'd like to make an EI all in one solution but am confused.

    James' very useful site lists the following(http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm):

    PMDD+PO4 formula:
    10g Potassium Nitrate
    1.0g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
    4.0g Potassium Sulphate
    8.0g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
    6g Aqua Essentials Trace Elements Mix
    0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
    0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
    500ml distilled water

    DIY TPN+
    48g Potassium Nitrate
    2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
    17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
    5g Aqua Essentials Trace Elements Mix
    0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
    0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
    500ml distilled water

    This link then gives instructions for an EI all in one which uses different quantities:
    http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2424

    The two lists above have more Potassium Nitrate than Magnesium Sulphate but in the excel sheet it calculates 2.5 times more Magnesium Sulphate than Potassium Nitrate. Is this based on true EI rather than PMDD or DIY TPN+?

    I could also make a NPK mix and CSM+B as separate mixes but I would prefer to does the same every day: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211

    Full details of my tank are in my journal but it's heavily planted with injected CO2 to 30 ppm and high lighting. Which of these options would you recommend based on a 50% water change weekly?

    Thanks,

    B4M
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    No one can guarantee which of those recipes will best fit your tank because every tank is different, every bubble rate is different and everyone lighting is different. All these recipes work but all require tweaking to some degree based on how the tank performs. People who have massive biomass + very high lighting and who use very high CO2 levels will find that the standard EI dosing per the dry powder article will work and that the dosages may even need to be increased. Folks who have lower lighting and/or lower biomass and lower Co2 levels will find the DIY TPN+ or the PMDD+PO4 strategy acceptable, but may have to tweak PO4.

    My advice would be to pick one dosing strategy and try to become adept at it. Based on your objective of preferring to dose the same amount every day I would say try the DIY TPN+ first and see how that goes. Again you may need to tweak depending on all variables. Keep the tank clean, prune frequently, ensure stable levels of CO2/flow and try to eliminate these as factors in possible algal appearance. If the tank is happy with the dosing plant growth will be good and algae minimal. Make adjustments based on whatever deficiencies appear. Regardless of which method you choose, note that 95% of the time poor CO2 will be your undoing.

    Cheers,
     
  3. B4M

    B4M Member

    Messages:
    61
    I think I'll give the mix given in the excel EI calculator a go. Ratios seem closer to true EI.
    So with a 250L tank to make up 1.5L and I chose to dose 25ml per day which is 175ml a week. The formula is based on dosing 3 times a week so I entered 58.3ml per dose, but I will actually does 25ml daily. Both equate to 175ml per week.

    Ingredient Grams
    KNO3 87
    KH2PO4 25
    MgSO4 225
    Traces 10.2
    Ascorbic Acid 1.5
    Potassium Sorbate 0.6

    I'll see how this goes and adjust if needed.

    B4M
     
  4. Midnight

    Midnight Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    I had the same confusion so emailed James direct. He explained the TPN recipe was really only for information. Neither recipe as I understand it, are subsitutes for E.I. they are more for people like myself whose lifestyle doesn't afford the routine required for E.I.

    I know bot-all about this stuff, so decided to just try it with minimal science and see what happens. You can see this at
    viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3157
     
  5. B4M

    B4M Member

    Messages:
    61
    Thanks Midnight,

    I made up the mixture last weekend and have been dosing 25ml per day. As far as I can tell this is close to EI quantities but combined into an all in one and using James' adders to prevent unwanted reactions. So far the liquid has remained a light green with no settlement.

    B4M
     
  6. Midnight

    Midnight Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    I'm using a similar recipe to James' but based on teaspoons and I don't think it's anywhere near E.I. levels. It's difficult for me to get a routine so only change about 30% of the water every now and then.

    It would be interesting to see your results. How about adding before and after photos?
     
  7. YzemaN

    YzemaN Member

    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Ooohhh... Someone's using my sheet :D
    A word of caution though, the calculations have not been verified and it was doing my head in trying to juggle all the numbers and sub-calculations.
    The amounts are based on the UKAPS EI article, but I think MgSO4 should only be about twice the amount of KNO3 , so it seem like there's an error somewhere?
    I have made a couple of other sheets and the one I'm using at the moment is super simple; You type in the fractions of a teaspoons per dose of the different salts based on a table with the "standard" tank sizes often mentioned on EI articles (20G, 40G and so on...), then type in the volume of the solution and the dosage and it then gives you the numbers you have to add in teaspoons. A bit more manual work, but at least the calculations were simpler... Perhaps I should edit the original post I made?

    I would like to hear how this one works for you, hopefully it won't turn your tank into an algae soup, but there's a fair amount of ferts in the solution, so it's unlikely.
     
  8. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,952
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Be careful about ratios of this to that. EI is not based on ratios and it certainly does not imply that MgSO4 should be dosed at 2.5 times that of KNO3. That's not written anywhere and if it appears that way, is an illusion. Some folks may not need to use MgSO4 at all. Others using pure RO water may use more. It depends on what's in your tap and how the tank is configured. These numbers are baseline and are used as a reference only. Start with them and make adjustments based on your observations of plant growth and health. Stop worrying about numbers and pay attention to what is happening inside the tank. :idea:

    Cheers,
     
  9. Midnight

    Midnight Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    Yes that's what I have been trying to do. Since beginning my experiments with All-in-one
    http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3157
    I have added a powerhead and drop checker/KH4 solution based on the advice received and adjusted the dosing and strength based on what I see.
     
  10. B4M

    B4M Member

    Messages:
    61
    Thanks for taking the time to develop it.
    I've almost finished the first 1 litre of all in one and the tanks looking healthy. I'm trying to follow Clive's advice that it's not about the exact numbers and make adjustments according to what the tank tells me. After the first 500ml I still had some Green Spot Algae so I increased the Potassium Phosphate in the remainder. The GSA has reduced but that may also be down to me increasing the flow.

    The spreadsheet is useful for someone starting out as it gives a baseline. The daily dosing of a single mixture suits me as their less to remember.

    B4M
     

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