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What Remineralising parameters do you aim for ? or Products do you use?

Zeus.

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1 Oct 2016
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Yorkshire,UK
Hi all,

If you use RO water and then remineralise it what parameter do you aim for? or products do you use?

Calcium concentration -[Ca]
Magnesium concentration -[Mg]
Potassium concentration -[K]
Permanent harness - dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH
and possibly Iron- [Fe]
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio

You might not have all the figure but any input will help.

Commercial products we have on the IFC calculator ATM are limited to three ATM
1611155073153.png

1611155267619.png

So any more folk use would be helpful also as can add them as well

Reason I ask is two fold.

1. So if we can have some consensus of what range to aim for, I can see about having the figures incorporated into the IFC calculator so others can use them in making their DIY Remineralising salts/agents
2. Looking at going down the RO route myself soon, so getting some parameters to aim for would help

Cheers,
Zeus
 

Hanuman

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4 Jan 2019
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583
Location
Thailand
Most people who know what they are doing would use none of the products above but would probably use compounds directly such as Calcium and Magnesium sulphate or other compounds to remineralize. I am in multiple high tech tanks group over facebook and most long timers swear by the 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio. In fact that's the ratio used by EI dosing. I personally don't even bother with that. I only aim for 20/25ppm Ca. Mg comes along the fertilizers which is plenty.
 

Wookii

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Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
1,472
Location
Nottingham
What I planned to do:

I don't have the target concentrations to hand, but used:

Calcium Chloride
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Carbonate

Targets:
Permanent harness - dGH - 5-6dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH - 2-3dKH

and possibly Iron- [Fe] - In micro mix
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - 3:1

What actually happened:


The Sieryu stone in my tank leaches loads of Calcium Carbonate, so despite daily 25% water changes with pure RO:

Actual:
Permanent harness - dGH - ~10-11dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH - ~6-7dKH
and possibly Iron- [Fe] - In micro mix
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - Unknown (MgSO4 added at EI levels in macro mix)

Reason I ask is two fold.

1. So if we can have some consensus of what range to aim for, I can see about having the figures incorporated into the IFC calculator so others can use them in making their DIY Remineralising salts/agents
2. Looking at going down the RO route myself soon, so getting some parameters to aim for would help

Cheers,
Zeus

It comes down largely to the livestock to be kept I think. A lot of the fish we keep in planted tanks are from soft water regions, so targets of 2dKH (to account for some soil buffering), and 2-3dGH are likely optimal - possibly even less for blackwater species.

However that might not provide enough Calcium in the water column for shrimp to moult successfully. That is why I targeted a higher 5-6dGH originally. Whether they need this much is a matter for debate though - but I saw it as a reasonable compromise for shrimp and fish.

The main takeaway for me is, if you want to target specific parameters, make sure you have inert hardscape!! . . . Schoolboy lesson learned for me! :banghead:
 

Zeus.

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Yorkshire,UK
@papa_c those figure check out nicely with what I have done, always like to cross check calculations with other work ;)
1611178433378.png

Had to make a few estimates for Ca:Mg ratio but its in the right order.
The [ S ] is the same on hidden sheets
1611178576530.png

just didn't have the room to show [ S ] ppm and [SO4]

( Forum doesnt like '[ S ]' when theres no spaces 😂)
 
Last edited:

Nick potts

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25 Sep 2014
Messages
467
Location
Torbay
I no longer check the actual values, I just remineralise to a TDS of 175ppm. I think it came to around 5-6gh and 4-5kh using jbl aquadur
 

jaypeecee

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21 Jan 2015
Messages
1,752
Location
Bracknell
It comes down largely to the livestock to be kept I think. A lot of the fish we keep in planted tanks are from soft water regions, so targets of 2dKH (to account for some soil buffering), and 2-3dGH are likely optimal - possibly even less for blackwater species.

However that might not provide enough Calcium in the water column for shrimp to moult successfully. That is why I targeted a higher 5-6dGH originally. Whether they need this much is a matter for debate though - but I saw it as a reasonable compromise for shrimp and fish.
Hi @Wookii

There are a few threads around at present dealing with this topic. I agree with what you say above but I always aim for alkalinity/carbonate hardness of 3 - 4 dKH and GH whatever is recommended in Seriously Fish for the fish species in the tank. I once had a pH crash in a tank so that's why I choose the above KH range.

JPC
 

jaypeecee

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21 Jan 2015
Messages
1,752
Location
Bracknell
I no longer check the actual values, I just remineralise to a TDS of 175ppm. I think it came to around 5-6gh and 4-5kh using jbl aquadur
Hi @Nick potts

Do you measure the TDS of the tank water and/or the TDS of the water being used to do the water change? My point is that the reading you will get from a TDS meter is affected by a range of 'stuff' in the water - not just the minerals you want to add. No doubt you are aware of this but I thought I'd mention it - just in case. Also note that JBL Aquadur is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.

JPC
 

Nick potts

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25 Sep 2014
Messages
467
Location
Torbay
Hi @Nick potts

Do you measure the TDS of the tank water and/or the TDS of the water being used to do the water change? My point is that the reading you will get from a TDS meter is affected by a range of 'stuff' in the water - not just the minerals you want to add. No doubt you are aware of this but I thought I'd mention it - just in case. Also note that JBL Aquadur is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.

JPC
I should mention this is a shrimp tank, so might not be relevant to the post topic.

I test the tank and freshwater, the tank water does not change much before the next WC.

Yes your right about the aquadur
 

Zeus.

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Thread starter
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1 Oct 2016
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Location
Yorkshire,UK
What I planned to do:

I don't have the target concentrations to hand, but used:

Calcium Chloride
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Carbonate

Targets:
Permanent harness - dGH - 5-6dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH - 2-3dKH

and possibly Iron- [Fe] - In micro mix
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - 3:1

What actually happened:


The Sieryu stone in my tank leaches loads of Calcium Carbonate, so despite daily 25% water changes with pure RO:

Actual:
Permanent harness - dGH - ~10-11dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH - ~6-7dKH
and possibly Iron- [Fe] - In micro mix
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - Unknown (MgSO4 added at EI levels in macro mix)



It comes down largely to the livestock to be kept I think. A lot of the fish we keep in planted tanks are from soft water regions, so targets of 2dKH (to account for some soil buffering), and 2-3dGH are likely optimal - possibly even less for blackwater species.

However that might not provide enough Calcium in the water column for shrimp to moult successfully. That is why I targeted a higher 5-6dGH originally. Whether they need this much is a matter for debate though - but I saw it as a reasonable compromise for shrimp and fish.

The main takeaway for me is, if you want to target specific parameters, make sure you have inert hardscape!! . . . Schoolboy lesson learned for me! :banghead:
So a max out CaCO3 option to its solubility limit may be useful 😏
 

Wookii

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13 Nov 2019
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Location
Nottingham
Hi @Wookii

There are a few threads around at present dealing with this topic. I agree with what you say above but I always aim for alkalinity/carbonate hardness of 3 - 4 dKH and GH whatever is recommended in Seriously Fish for the fish species in the tank. I once had a pH crash in a tank so that's why I choose the above KH range.

JPC

Yeah, I guess if you have elements in your tanks that are buffering the KH down significantly you need to account for those, but if you don't and you are able to maintain a stable alkalinity, 2dKH should be sufficient to buffer any organic acids created in the tank. Many rainwater users on here add no alkalinity buffering to their tanks at all.

Also note that JBL Aquadur is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.

JPC

I've seen you mention this before John, and it might be worth you outlining what you mean by a "complete remineralizer" in case there is anything that @Zeus might want to include in the calculator revision.

Per the JBL Aquadur information label, the contents are:

Calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, magnesium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate

That seems to include everything required to remineralise RO water, namely Calcium, Magnesium and Carbonates. What else needs to be included for it to be a 'complete' remineraliser?
 

jaypeecee

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Location
Bracknell
Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

The list of compounds in your post immediately above (from the JBL info label) is the first time I've seen a list of ingredients in JBL Aquadur. The reason for thinking of Aquadur as incomplete is because JBL (on their website) refer to Aquadur simply as stated below:

"JBL Aquadur

Mineral salt water conditioner to raise the hardness of freshwater aquariums"

So, thanks for setting the record straight.

JPC
 

Zeus.

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We use to have JBl Aquador - took it off as as we didnt have the Ca and Mg ratios
However if we can set the Ca:Mg ratio
1611259048763.png


or playing around with salts you can make a Clone solution (with a better Cl:SO4 ratio/levels) and just add 1ml/10l of RO water

1611259398621.png
 

tam

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5 May 2011
Messages
1,042
Off the shelf that do gh and kh...

Tropic Re-Min Tropical
Salty Shrimp GH/KH
Shrimp King gh/kh

There are a few variations on shrimp ones, both the above do the gh and kh, rather than the more specialist shrimp varieties.
 

Zeus.

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Joined
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Location
Yorkshire,UK
Off the shelf that do gh and kh...

Tropic Re-Min Tropical
Salty Shrimp GH/KH
Shrimp King gh/kh

There are a few variations on shrimp ones, both the above do the gh and kh, rather than the more specialist shrimp varieties.
1611342076502.png


Unfortunately no Ca or Mg ratios/data
 

JoshP12

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Joined
8 Dec 2019
Messages
520
Location
Canada
Hi all,

Here is current:

My water is:
9Ca, 2Mg

I add 15 Ca, 16 Mg, 24 K

at water change ~ 80%.

My KH in tap is 1, if it wasn't I'd use Potassium bicarb and get to 1.

Josh
 

Zeus.

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Location
Yorkshire,UK
1611395010560.png

Shrimp King Mineral Fluid double dosage does say one drop per litre, 20 drops per ml so 1ml per 20Litres.
No Vitamins in clone, however if you are feeding a source which is appropriate that shouldn't be an issue IMO, The added Vitamins may be a 'red herring' to make you think your getting something extra you need when in reality the shrimp may have an abundance of the Vitamin already. Misdirection of the facts/information of what a product contains and the benefits of it is a standard advertising campaign of companies. If there was hard facts to backup the need for the extra vitamins the companies would be showing the the facts that support their claims ( I would ) ;).

Shame I am struggling to get the analysis data sheets for the products as that would get us the Ca:Mg ratio.

I have coded the program so it uses the Ca:Mg ratio of product 'if known' and 'if unknown' you get to set the Ca:Mg ratio yourself
1611397331845.png
 
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