JamesC said:Terrible stuff. What on earth do you want it for? Are you embalming bodies?
plantbrain said:hijac said:
My client once drank some Excel he had in a glass similar to the water.
Said it burned like hell.
Sounds like high proof Scotch to me
He's still quite alive.
I've only done something similar with Brine shrimp.
Why did I select AE product because its the strongest of the 3 on the market in terms of concentration and several questions surrounding the product many of straight forward were ignored.
I also feel that its likely that a major company will have developed quality control tests both during and post production to ensure there is just the right amount in the concentrated form .
one specific to the registered manufacturer wasnt available as per the law in the UK and Europe for AES product which is not the same in makeup as excel. so ..
In any case as i pointed out , theres just enough anecdotal evidence to me personally not to use it and I guess thats what it comes down to.
" Furthermore, it is important to note that individuals can protect themselves from exposure to glutaraldehyde by following specific guidelines outlined by the Center for Disease Control, which includes the use of local exhaust ventilation, keeping glutaraldehyde baths under a fume hood where possible, using the minimum amount of glutaraldehyde to perform the required procedure, avoiding skin contact by using gloves and aprons made of nitrile or butyl rubber, washing gloved hands after handling glutaraldehyde, wearing goggles and face shields when handling glutaraldehyde, and sealing or covering all containers holding glutaraldehyde solutions "
plantbrain said:The other thing, why not just side step it and use CO2 gas?
That's what I do.
You can add CO2 to beer too!
Cannot do that for with Excel!
JamesM said:In what way are AE legal obliged to answer any questions? Also, what makes you think AE are making this stuff up in a bath tub? They could very well have a different company making and bottling it for them.
plantbrain said:I do not know what concentration AE's is or is not, but I doubt it's that much different than Seachem. Might be closer to Easycarbo, not sure. However, of the 2 name brands, Easy Carbo is certainly more concentrated.
You can test that while you are at it :idea:
Why ask others to do the work for you? This is something you need to prove to yourself.
You cannot trust the government, the industry etc, you said so yourself with cig's and cancer etc........
You cannot add much more as far as ppm's to the aquarium without killing things.
This isnt anything to do with AE at the end of the day , its to do with the product all three companies sell.plantbrain said:My question is why are you after the little guy here vs Seachem or Easylife?
It's easier to pick on them than going after the bigger companies?
Yes they have , the Royal College of nurses did its in the report above.plantbrain said:I'm not questioning the fact that it's a dangerous chemical, it is, and maybe it's not safe under the guidelines for air quality exposure for humans. No one has tested that
plantbrain said:Just because it's marketed, does not mean it's safe, things have become better over the years, but this is not food, herbicides, asbestos, DDT, or drugs, it's fish hobby stuff. Not much demand for such regulation or large risk posed to the public for most things. Big difference when comparing and making analogies.
plantbrain said:Name one product that poses a large risk to aquarist that's been banned ? Is it regulated properly I cannot think of any off the top of my head. AE could easily test and measure the chemical and offer the same concentration and dose to aquarists.
plantbrain said:How do you know it's not the same?
You'd have to same beef with Easy carb and with Seachem Excel, yet you seem unwilling to to take them on, threaten them, but are okay with a little small company?
Do entertain me.
They all have the same stuff in them, perhaps at different concentrations, but the same none the less.
plantbrain said:Maybe the air levels are unsafe
plantbrain said:We do not know.
I have tested 2 of the products for concentrations.
plantbrain said:In any case as i pointed out , theres just enough anecdotal evidence to me personally not to use it and I guess thats what it comes down to.
plantbrain said:Yes, I'd suggest you not use any of the 3 products since it's a risk you are not willing to accept.
The air quality issue has not been tested or resolved within the health industry for many cases.
I highly doubt anyone has done so in the aquarium hobby
You honestly think they have?
Ask and see for yourself.
At lower levels of concentrations, the volatility is lower(eg in your aquarium), so there's going to be less evolution in the vapour form, whether or not you can smell it, does not imply that there's a high level etc
plantbrain said:Good ventilation is wise anyway if you use it daily etc.
You'd need to measure the vapours from a typical aquarium in a typical room's air to judge whether there's a health risk. My bet is that there is some.
plantbrain said:I don't use it frequently however, and add it before I leave for work etc. By the time I get back(9 1/2 hours later), 95-100% is gone(I took samples, frozen them to see, then tested).
Since you bring this up and all, do you think Seachem, Easy Carbo have bothered to do such human health risk assessments and do you think they have any medical human health doctors that are qualified to do such work?
plantbrain said:You seem to think/suggest they do and should be trusted, while AE is not. I agree there's a lack of info on the human health aspects. Your sister will not be able to answer that, you need to measure the air concentrations at the homes of aquarist to get an idea there.
plantbrain said:So you'd need a meter to measure the levels with typical use in a poorly ventilated room, at high concentrations, perhaps with several tanks etc. Then see what the ppm standards are and time of exposure/dose for humans based on the best data available for risk.
plantbrain said:Maybe there's something to it.
Are you going to do that and take on Seachem and Easylife or just pick on AE?
*If not, then everything you have said is sort of mute ain't it?*
[/quote]plantbrain said:If so, then we can look towards having these products removed potentially and NO LONGER AVAILABLE.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5602#p61977JamesM said:what makes you think AE are making this stuff up in a bath tub? They could very well have a different company making and bottling it for them.
JamesC said:The UK has it's own set of rules called CHIP. This makes interesting reading - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg350.pdf. As the liquid carbon is a preparation containing a dangerous substance then there are requirements that need to be met in regard to labelling and handling. There are exceptions to the rule, ie if it's for the cosmetic industry. I'm not sure if this also includes the pet industry as well.
davidcmadrid said:Your under the illusion that I am on some form of witch hunt for AE, to be fair to that I have focussed on that one because the sales person told me their product was 20% stronger than the other ones and it still could be the case that this means the bottle has a higher ppm relatively speaking.
Themuleous said:I think we all need to take a step back here, lots of potential accusations being banded about and that does no one any good. If you dont like the product or are weary about health and safety, dont use it! Simple as that aint it?
Now these 'oils' clearly say on their bottles do not inhale, do not blah blah etc. yet they are sold by the same person who bottles it and prints do not inhale as aromatherapy oils???? I guess what I am asking is how can something be used for aromatherapy if it says on the bottle it is not to be inhaled?