Will fishless cycling harm plants?

[sciencefiction]

Ian, for fishless cycling you need just an ammonia and a nitrite test kit. We all know nitrate test kits and others are affected by many things and don't give near accurate results. Especially nitrate during fishless cycling because the tests kits normally convert all nitrates to nitrites first to give you the reading for nitrates so if nitrites are present in a tank the test kit will always read nitrates too.
But for purposes of figuring out whether the tanks have started processing ammonia and nitrites at a fast enough rate, the ammonia and nitrite home test kits work pretty well.

Take some tank water from your established tank. Test it with your test kit. I am pretty certain it will show a reading below 0.25ppm with almost any liquid test kit on the market. Then add 2ppm ammonia to that same water by using prior calculations based on the strength of ammonia used. Test again and you'll be surprised how close result the test will show compared to your calculated dose.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I've tested my own API ammonia kit, using RO/DI 0 tds water, mixed with varying quantities of KleenOff 9.5% ammonia and it was pretty much bob on up to 8 PPM.

It is pretty much like "ian_m" says, the problem is interference from other ions, it isn't as bad for cations as it is for anions, but there are still problems. You should actually find the test for NO3 will be accurate if you use RO and KNO3 etc.

I always use the photocopy analogy, where the copier can reproduce primary colours, but as soon as you are into shades of mauve, pink and green they all come out the same colour.

The only parameter I test semi-regularly is conductivity, which isn't particularly useful, but is about the only test or meter when you can dip it in and get a reproducible reading.

I'm not against testing or test kits, if you really could dip a meter in and get levels of all the nutrients it would be really useful. There is actually some analytical equipment that will cover nearly all ions, but it is <"Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry">, and even that experiences some problems with ion interference.

Partially my reasons for wanting to be a better fish keeper this time was that the first time I kept fish was before the WWW and I used to kill them off with sickening regularity. This time has been better, and I've still managed to kill my fish in a variety of interesting ways, but water quality hasn't been an issue.

cheers Darrel

 

[ajm83]

You've hit the home hobby test kit nail on the head. The test kits read fine if using RO water and one chemical, as you have found out.

However the home hobby kits are greatly affected by what else is in the water. eg hardness of water can be affect NO3 test kits reading (and chloride in some kits), NO3 can affect DkH reading, organic acids affect other readings, thus in reality making any testing of tank water using these kits rather meaningless.

Just because your test kit reads 0ppm ammonia with your tank water doesn't necessarily mean the actual ammonia level is zero.

I did mention that nitrate tests are rubbish, but I don't agree that makes entire test kits meaningless.

It's a bit like my car still optimistically saying "15 miles left" on its fuel display when I know for a fact that the tank is completely empty. This doesn't mean that I stop using the fuel display completely and instead rely on a gut feeling 'I filled my car up about two weeks ago so it's probably alright'.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

This doesn't mean that I stop using the fuel display completely and instead rely on a gut feeling 'I filled my car up about two weeks ago so it's probably alright'.

The original ideas were developed on hunches, some stood the test of time, some didn't.

I'm not claiming all my original ideas have worked, as an example before joined this forum and some one had told me that EI worked, I'd have told them they were deluded, but you have to learn from experience. It isn't for me, but a lot of people follow the rules for EI in their tanks with stunning success.

But if you look through this forum there are a lot of people being successful with long term low tech. set-ups, using simple KISS techniques, where fish that even experts regard as

difficult to keep

are breeding etc.

I'm not trying to diminish their role in these successes, but tank architecture, planting etc must at least play a minor role.

cheers Darrel

 

[Michael W]

I guess at the end of the day there are both arguments for and against any method and that nothing is perfect for anyone due to various factors. We all want to achieve is a safe environment for our fish and shrimps. As long as we arrive at that goal then you can choose whatever method suits you. While I personally don't suggest ammonia in a cycle, I will not fully dismiss that fact that it can work.

Michael.

 

[Tim Harrison]

Hi all, The original ideas were developed on hunches, some stood the test of time, some didn't.

I'm not claiming all my original ideas have worked, as an example before joined this forum and some one had told me that EI worked, I'd have told them they were deluded, but you have to learn from experience. It isn't for me, but a lot of people follow the rules for EI in their tanks with stunning success.

But if you look through this forum there are a lot of people being successful with long term low tech. set-ups, using simple KISS techniques, where fish that even experts regard as are breeding etc.

I'm not trying to diminish their role in these successes, but tank architecture, planting etc must at least play a minor role.
cheers Darrel

So often there is more at play than we're conscious of...call it fishy fingers...green fingers...natural ability...experience...whatever. Some people just have a knack, an instinct, and just go with it with amazing results. Whilst others can read everything there is to read on a subject and still fail miserably

To quote Lex Luthor...
...'Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe'...

 

[sciencefiction]

This time has been better, and I've still managed to kill my fish in a variety of interesting ways, but water quality hasn't been an issue.

When you mentioned "killed fish in a variety of interesting ways", I once killed a guppy accidentally while actually trying to test the water I put a syringe in the tank to draw some water and while doing so I didn't see the guppies gathering around my hand. I sucked up the tail of a beautiful mail guppy down to the base into the syringe I felt awful for months just by the thought of it and what I had done. The poor thing didn't last a few hours afterwards.