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Yellow Leaves

Dominic

Dominic

Member
Joined
11 Nov 2013
Messages
319
Location
High Wycombe
Hi,

I have a problem with some of my plants in my tank. It is a low-tech tank.

Everything that has access to the substrate, is growing perfectly because of the JINo3. However, most of the plants that do not have access, for example amazon frogbit and riparium plants (that use the water column as its source of nutrients) seem to have yellow new leaves, and also the microsorum pteropus 'narrow', which is tied onto rock, seems to be going blotchy brown and sort of going transparent.

I am an absolute beginner to fertilisers and have never used them before, but if I am thinking correctly does this mean that there is a lack of nutrients in the water column? A lack of Nitrogen and magnesium?

Do nitrates count as a nitrogen source or...? I have an EI dosing kit to hand too.

Any help would be fantastic.
 
Hi Dominic
Could be a lack of flow around the plants.
I would dose as per instruction as the EI dosing kit.
Fertilizers are reasonably cheap....so dose for a few months and see if there is a improvement.
Regular water changes will improve the health of the Amazon frogbit/Java fern.
Cheers
hoggie
 
Just to add on to what hoggie said, I agree start to add a small amount of ei but add at around a quarter of the recommended dose once every two weeks or split the fortnightly dose to once weekly. It could possibly depend on your stocking levels also. If it's very low stocked then your riparium plants would suck up any nitrates ammonia etc from the water column as they are greedy. I found the best method was one or two small ten percent water changes a week, a sprinkle of traces and npk and my low techs did wonderful..

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2
 
Awesome, so the guidelines say dose 3x per week 10ml every 50 litres or something like that, should i dose 10ml every 50litres once a week?
And should I dose micros too?

How do 10 percent water changes work? Surely that removes nutrients from the water column? I normally do around 10-30 percent water changes.
 
Could be an iron deficiency(yellow new leaves). I get the same and I think it's also because of my hard water as Iron is hardly available to the plants in hard water. If you are using JIN3, then your tank water is probably harder too due to the lime content.
It can't be nitrogen or magnesium because they would show up on old leaves, not new leaves.
So if your plants are lacking nutrients in this scenario it's trace elements most likely and it's possibly iron but a picture would help.
 
ok i'll try and get a picture up tomorrow night, however I dosed some seachem flourish comprehensive as i was waiting for my ei salts to dissolve in the solution overnight, and the plants look much better today, however i shouldnt expect to see a change that quickly. We'll see how it goes. Does Iron come in the micro solution?
 
Hi all,
If you have the EI salts to hand, I'd follow Alastair's suggestion.

A thought occurs that both your floaters and emergents will be close to the light, and high levels of light tend to cause yellowing in new leaves when nutrients are limited.

Nutrient deficiencies are always hard to diagnose, but nitrogen (N) and potassium (K) are always the most likely ones, because plants need about x10 more of these than they do of any of the other nutrients (including phosphorus P).

As "sciencefiction" says very hard, calcium rich water can interfere with the uptake of other nutrients, including magnesium (Mg), K and iron (Fe).

I have low-tech nutrient restricted tanks, and I use the colour and health of my floating plants as an indication of when I need to add some nutrients. I've called it the "Duckweed Index", but it is really just a KISS solution allowing you to maintain some plant growth <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/duckweed-index-ferts-advice.21003/>.

cheers Darrel
 
Yup i have them to hand, i'll dose them today.

My floaters are not very close to the light, my light is just under 2 feet above the surface of the water. The emergents, the tallest are probably around 6-10inches or so from the light. It seems to be the 'faster' growing plants that suffer.

I wonder, how does hard, calcium-rich water interfere with the uptake of nutrients?

Cheers
 
Hi all,
Dominic said:
I wonder, how does hard, calcium-rich water interfere with the uptake of nutrients?
Click to expand...
parotet said:
EI dosing should ensure nutrient levels even in this situation, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Yes, EI dosing should deal with most deficiencies, but if you have a lot of Ca++ ions in solution they can still interfere with the uptake of other ions. Because it is difficult to remove ions from solution, for the basic metals (K+, Mg++) you usually add them to solution (to increase the K:Ca etc. ratio) and this then increases their uptake, it is purely a "numbers game".

Iron (Fe) is slightly different in that it isn't induced by an absolute Fe deficiency but rather results from a physiological disorder which affects the mobility of Fe in the entire plant. A further complication is that Fe+++ ions will form insoluble precipitates with PO4---- and OH- ions, which is why we can't just add more iron ions, but have to add it in chelated form.

There is summary here: <http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html>

cheers Darrel
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html
 
That was a very interesting table darrel, thanks for sharing.

Dosed EI ferts yesterday, the floaters put out new plants every day and the newer ones seem good now, all green. :)

The new leaves on the emergent seem a slight bit greener now but have a significant brown blotches on them.... the lower leaves are absolutely fine, it is just the new ones. Any ideas?
 
Some pictures-

You can see the yellow on top in comparison to the rest of the plant-
DSCN0259_zps8dacb2ff.jpg

Brown blotches
DSCN0262_zps5cec4563.jpg

DSCN0261_zps23a088d0.jpg


Not too bad on this one, this is the fastest growing of the lot.
DSCN0265_zps7779af63.jpg
 
Ermm i dosed the recommended 10ml per 50 litres EI micro and macro, and its a 300 litre. I've been told to do once a week because its low tech.
 
Dominic said:
Ermm i dosed the recommended 10ml per 50 litres EI micro and macro, and its a 300 litre. I've been told to do once a week because its low tech.
Click to expand...

10ml of what brand ferts Dominic?
If it's trace deficiency or iron, you should dose around 0.2ppm iron every other day(or whatever dose that is from your type of ferts) for around 3 times in total per week regardless of low tech or high tech. This is to test if it solves the issue, in a low tech it takes up to 6 days. If it does give results, you can tailor your dose afterwards until you figure how much is enough.
 
It is aquariumplantfood mate. Oh i see mate, wouldnt algae issues arise if i dosed too much?

So for example, start with dosage 3x per week, wait for up to 6 days to see any signs of healthy growth. If healthy growth is present, then decrease to say 2.5x per week, and then so on? Am i right here?
 
The reason I was asking is in order to calculate how much you are effectively dosing as 10ml per 50l doesn't say anything to me (trace element concentration of certain nutrients are different for different brands of ferts)

If it's a nutrient deficiency, plant will stop growing properly when One particular nutrient has run out. Until it gets it, it won't grow properly and take up other nutrients. So lets say you know which nutrient, which in this case if nutrient deficiency, points to a trace element of some sort, you do dose traces but you dose just enough the plant takes for a day or two and then the next 5 days the plant runs dry because you dosed insufficient amount? Then there won't be improvement even though you dosed some.

My point is, dose an EI dose at least a week, spread as per EI instructions. Watch new growth, improvements:

Yes...then modify lower doses if you like afterwards as this is a low tech.
No....have you tried dosing everything, like calcium and magnesium as well? If yes and still no improvement, then something else is at stake.

Humidity? Heat? Light burns?
And even possibly a large water change to flush out something in case it's nutrient toxicity.
 
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