DaveP
Member
I did a big clean, got rid of most of the BBA, spot treated with liquid CO2 where I couldn’t get it off. Big filter clean too. I don’t think anything else changed but the BBA went wild a few days later!
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General advice, almost ready to call it a day!
- Thread starter DaveP
- Start date
DaveP
Member
Great, I have a test kit like that already, thanks!Hi again, @DaveP
You don't need a pH meter at the moment. Something like this should do the job nicely:
JBL pH 6.0 - 7.6 Test Kit
Buy JBL pH 6.0 - 7.6 Test Kit from CMC Aquatics a high quality test kit measuring pH in aquarium water in 0.2 increments.www.cmcaquatics.co.uk
JPC
xZaiox
Member
The unfortunate thing is that neither a 1.0 pH drop or drop checker can accurately say that you have perfect CO2 for your tank, but the two can help guide us. The general consensus is to use the plants and fish as guides, i.e if the fish are happy and showing no signs of distress, but the plants aren't happy (i.e algae), then it could be worth increasing the bubble rate and observing the tank. It's important to only do this when you can be around to observe the tank though, and make sure that the fish tolerate the increase.
@jaypeecee sounds pretty sure that dissolved organics are the cause of BBA, so it might be best to start there first. Maybe try reviewing your tank cleaning methods and optimising flow in your tank. You want all of your plants gently swaying in the flow, this shows that they're all getting delivery of CO2 and nutrients, and keeps organics from depositing on them. If this part doesn't help, then I would move on to increase CO2. I would absolutely lower your lighting intensity while figuring out the algae issue though.
DaveP
Member
That makes sense, especially in light of other comment about how I’m siphoning off the detritus. It feels like it’s a massive job to keep on top of that though, it’s a big surface area to clean the plants and soil like that. Maybe I’m just doing it wrong? Or with the wrong tools?
DaveP
Member
Makes sense, thanks! I wonder about flow, I’ll check that.
Hi @DaveP
That would have stirred things up with the result that particulate organics (stuff that you can see) would have then been broken down by heterotrophic bacteria. The nett outcome is dissolved organics (which we can't see). I can't comment on the use of liquid carbon as I never use it.
JPC
DaveP
Member
I’ll get onto all that right away! Ferts are APT Complete, 5ml daily…
DaveP
Member
Is there a way to deal with dissolved organics other than lots more cleaning and big water changes? What would you recommend exactly?
Hi @xZaiox
It's rarely the case that there is just one contributing factor. I avoid saying that X or Y or Z is the cause of whatever. The more I've read about aquatics science, the more I appreciate the sheer complexity of what happens in our tanks. It is truly mind-boggling!
JPC
xZaiox
Member
I'm wondering if you might be disturbing the substrate too much or something.
Are you disturbing the deeper layers? Typically for cleaning all I do is lightly swish the siphon over the top of the visible substrate during water change day (50% each Sunday), and I'll also swish it around the rocks. In the deeper layers of the substrate, there is all sorts of rich colonies of bacteria that are breaking down all the waste that gets down to those layers.
I don't know if I'm doing it the right way, I haven't had any algae for a while now though
I think the EA 900 holds about 250 ltrs, advice for clean up crews I have read are 1 amano for every 5 to 8 ltrs,, so at least 30 to 50 shrimp, and 1 nerite snail per every 10ltrs so that would give you 25ltrs. You could also try some Siamese algae eaters they do eat BBA apparently, although my pair seem to avoid it.
Hi @DaveP
I think it starts with gaining some understanding about organics. I'll try to get back online tomorrow. For example, aquatic plants leach organics into the aquarium water. They do this when the plants are healthy and even more so when they are not healthy. There is a thread on UKAPS that I started a few years ago. Its title is something like "Do healthy plants release organics?"
Now, I must go offline. It's late.
JPC
ElleDee
Member
Oh, good that you are doing a big change. You could probably skip soaking the pipes every week as long as the flow isn't being impeded. It might look ugly without getting cleaned, but if you are getting burnt out you should look for shortcuts. I don't run CO2 myself, so I don't know about your issue priming the pump, but surely there's got to be a better solution there. My canister doesn't even have a priming mechanism (Eheim classic series), but I have shut off valves on both sides of the filter that I can close when I work on the tank or remove the filter and I generally don't have to suck on any tubes if I'm thoughtful about it.
Low energy tanks are underrated! They require patience because everything grows so much slower, but that's true for algae too. The real downside is the plant options are more limited, but the ones that grow well are not picky once they settle in.
As it stands, I definitely think you are on the right track making sure your CO2 is dialed in and working on reducing organics. Good luck!
@DaveP
Lots of good advise up here but I'll sum up what I believe your issue is and IMO what your priority should be.
1. You are using high lights but are not so confident about your CO2 levels. Red flag. That should be your primary concern before anything else. Not sure at what moment of the day those pictures were taken but if that is the color of your drop checker then you need to bump CO2 up, or decrease light if you want slower growth. It will all depends on plant requirements and what you are after. High tech tanks are intrinsically high maintenance because of how rapid plants grow. So if it isn't due to algae problems then you still need to trim plants regularly. Whether you stay with a drop checker or go for a 1 PH drop, that is your choice, but CO2 in relation to light needs to be fixed ASAP.
2. Your tank is underplanted. Lightly planted tanks are more difficult to care for hence why it is advised when you are new to this to shove as many plants as possible.
3. Organics, partially caused by reason #1. Your tank has entered a positive feedback loop that is self sustaining. Plant health is impacted by your light/co2 imbalance. Organics are released permanently and more so when you trim plants every week since plants aren't doing well in the first place. The wood also contributes to such organic release. Your fish as well. All that put together creates a great soup for algae. So reduce organics and don't allow organics/dust to go to in the water column when you are draining the tank.
If you fix point #1 #3 above you will start seeing some clear improvements. Point #2 is advisable for better stability and I recommend it.
When you are fixing the above I would suggest, doing two WC back to back specially when doing big "cleanings" because despite what we think when you are cleaning and removing organics you are in fact potentially adding some more inadvertently by disturbing the substrate, the filter, the plants etc. So a second WC can drastically reduce organics as it is originally intended.
Good luck and don't give up. Don't get fooled by all those high tech tanks, "free of algae", thinking it's a piece of cake for the owner. They spend FAR MORE time maintaining their tanks than they care to admit. I myself spend easily 2 hours every Saturday and don't consider myself to have algae problems. I could possibly spend less time if I didn't have stem plants as those require trimming all the time.
Lots of good advise up here but I'll sum up what I believe your issue is and IMO what your priority should be.
1. You are using high lights but are not so confident about your CO2 levels. Red flag. That should be your primary concern before anything else. Not sure at what moment of the day those pictures were taken but if that is the color of your drop checker then you need to bump CO2 up, or decrease light if you want slower growth. It will all depends on plant requirements and what you are after. High tech tanks are intrinsically high maintenance because of how rapid plants grow. So if it isn't due to algae problems then you still need to trim plants regularly. Whether you stay with a drop checker or go for a 1 PH drop, that is your choice, but CO2 in relation to light needs to be fixed ASAP.
2. Your tank is underplanted. Lightly planted tanks are more difficult to care for hence why it is advised when you are new to this to shove as many plants as possible.
3. Organics, partially caused by reason #1. Your tank has entered a positive feedback loop that is self sustaining. Plant health is impacted by your light/co2 imbalance. Organics are released permanently and more so when you trim plants every week since plants aren't doing well in the first place. The wood also contributes to such organic release. Your fish as well. All that put together creates a great soup for algae. So reduce organics and don't allow organics/dust to go to in the water column when you are draining the tank.
The above seems to imply organics are being thrown over all around the tank. That is a big NO NO. You have to do it with minutia and only fan what is allowed to be sucked immediatly. It doesn't mean you have to do the whole substrate every week. Just do small sections each time.
If you fix point #1 #3 above you will start seeing some clear improvements. Point #2 is advisable for better stability and I recommend it.
When you are fixing the above I would suggest, doing two WC back to back specially when doing big "cleanings" because despite what we think when you are cleaning and removing organics you are in fact potentially adding some more inadvertently by disturbing the substrate, the filter, the plants etc. So a second WC can drastically reduce organics as it is originally intended.
Good luck and don't give up. Don't get fooled by all those high tech tanks, "free of algae", thinking it's a piece of cake for the owner. They spend FAR MORE time maintaining their tanks than they care to admit. I myself spend easily 2 hours every Saturday and don't consider myself to have algae problems. I could possibly spend less time if I didn't have stem plants as those require trimming all the time.
Wookii
Member
You've had some great advice already @DaveP, and well summarised by @Hanuman.
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is your ferts:
This is pretty lean dosing. If I have my numbers correct, your dose results in (weekly):
NO3: 5.04ppm
PO4: 1.96ppm
K: 10.64ppm
Mg: 1.12ppm
Fe (as proxy for micros): 0.14ppm
Whilst you should be able to get away with the levels of K and PO4, your plants could quite possibly be deficient in NO3, Mg and micros. I would at least double your dose initially, and when you next need to buy a bottle, go with the APT EI so it lasts longer (DIY salts would be even better) as it will allow you to revert back to 5ml daily. I would also get some Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4 - aka Epsom salts - available from Amazon/eBay etc) and add a little more, unless you know for sure there is Magnesium in your tap water, regardless of which APT product you use.
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is your ferts:
This is pretty lean dosing. If I have my numbers correct, your dose results in (weekly):
NO3: 5.04ppm
PO4: 1.96ppm
K: 10.64ppm
Mg: 1.12ppm
Fe (as proxy for micros): 0.14ppm
Whilst you should be able to get away with the levels of K and PO4, your plants could quite possibly be deficient in NO3, Mg and micros. I would at least double your dose initially, and when you next need to buy a bottle, go with the APT EI so it lasts longer (DIY salts would be even better) as it will allow you to revert back to 5ml daily. I would also get some Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4 - aka Epsom salts - available from Amazon/eBay etc) and add a little more, unless you know for sure there is Magnesium in your tap water, regardless of which APT product you use.
seedoubleyou
Member
PH test kits are inaccurate and a waste of money.
@Wookii I purposefully omitted ferts entirely because I don't think it is the cause of algae problems or the solution.
The dosing should be 5ml/4 times per week or 3ml/every day. So technically he is dosing more than the recommended dosage. Basically he is dosing the following:
So as you can see far more than enough, but not as much as me yet 😂
1. Considering the low plant mass, NO3 in there is probably enough. You need to consider all fish, shrimps and snails that are also providing some, plus accumulation over time.
2. He has what seems to be a complete substrate. That is obviously an assumption from my side but it looks very much like it, in which is case it is providing nutrients as well. Granted it's 18 months old but I would bet there is still plenty of nutrients as the tank is not heavily planted.
As per manufacturer:
The dosing should be 5ml/4 times per week or 3ml/every day. So technically he is dosing more than the recommended dosage. Basically he is dosing the following:
So as you can see far more than enough, but not as much as me yet 😂
Honestly I doubt it very much, regardless of the ferts:
1. Considering the low plant mass, NO3 in there is probably enough. You need to consider all fish, shrimps and snails that are also providing some, plus accumulation over time.
2. He has what seems to be a complete substrate. That is obviously an assumption from my side but it looks very much like it, in which is case it is providing nutrients as well. Granted it's 18 months old but I would bet there is still plenty of nutrients as the tank is not heavily planted.
Wookii
Member
No, that's for a 100 litre tank, he's rocking 250 litres so divide all your numbers by 2.5
Correct. Omitted that tiny bit of information 😅. Getting tired of looking at that calculator.
Wookii
Member
Don't lie, you love it! 😂
