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500 Litre sumped System

Leesey

Leesey

Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
35
Hi
I thought i would start a journal about my First planted tank.

It is probably going to be slow progress however I'm sure i will have some fun on the way and learn lots of things.

The real work with the tank won't start for around 2 weeks (as that is when my parents are coming up from nottingham to assist with moving the tank to its new location as my wife (who is expecting our third child) is not much use when it comes to lifting and moving heavy things and i cannot do it on my own.

I am in the meantime looking to stock up on substrate and hopefully a pressurised co2 system using a 5kg fir extinguisher. i say hopefully as i am unsure of the best way to do this and also where to introduce the co2 into the system.

Now the tank.....
It measures 36 inches wide, 27 inches deep and 27 inches high.

The sump measures 30 inches wide and 18 inches deep and the water level come about 10 inches high so the working system volume is around 518 litres.

The circulation will be provided by a 6000lph jebao dc return pump from the sump to the tank and from the tank to the sump gravity takes care of this part.

Filtration will be pond filters in the sump and potentially some bioballs in the centre section with a small powerhead in there to ensure they are all being mixed around (this also helps to alleviate any dead spots in the sump as it was originally designed as a refigium from when it was a marine tank.

I may be putting a Jebao wp10 or 25 in the dt on a pulse mode to help with circulation (to avoid any dead spots)

The scape which i think i will be going for is a gulley scape or maybe not I'm not fully decided yet.

This is the tank when it used to be marine
20121215_215348.jpg

However to keep the wife happy before the tank got moved to its new him and we could start work i had to 'freshen' up the lounge which has involved painting and also new wallpaper which is yet to be done, this had to be done now as when the tank is in place i will not be able to get behind it to paint!
DSC_0133.jpg

Here is a picture of the tank and its innards
DSC_0095.jpg
DSC_0098.jpg
DSC_0100.jpg

All thoughts and opinions welcome.

Jon
 
Just bear in mind the effect of overflows & sumps on C02 enriched water.
If you pour a class of fizzy (co2) water down a chute there wont be many bubble left at the end!
This does not mean a sump is necessarily a bad asset but you will burn more gas!
The easy way to get the C02 dissolve would be to feed is straight into the sump pump (needle wheels work best).
 
I understand that a sumped system is not the most suitable, due to co2 dissipation,
I would like to build a new system with no sump around 5 x 2 x 2 (feet) but due to a new baby this is not going to be possible, so we are going to continue with what we have.
I was wondering about the co2 being entered into the final section of the sump so it is taken straight p from the return pump into the display tank.

What would be the best way to get it into the final section?

Jon
 
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Hi Jon
A sump is a brilliant asset for a planted tank as well. I'msure youre familiar with the concept of reversed lighting periods for marine tanks, well why not try the same for your planted tank and never worry about CO2?

Wish I had the space to try it myself!

Rod
 
Reversed lighting period for a planted tank... What are you talking about?
 
Sacha said:
Reversed lighting period for a planted tank... What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Err well the whole reason for using canisters etc is to dissolve more CO2 into the tank is it not? Then why not use fast growing plants in a sump on a reversed lighting period? So when they respire releasing CO2 directly into the water, and voila CO2 levels in display increase. Also they will absorb excess CO2 when main display is lights off.

Tell me why it hasn't been done already?
 
sounds like it would work.
however the space in the sump is much smaller and has less planting room so would produce less co2 on the reversed lighting cycle.
i used to do the same thing with macro algae when it was a marine system but not with the primary focus of producing co2.
also potentially saves the cost of buying co2
Jon
 
ourmanflint said:
Err well the whole reason for using canisters etc is to dissolve more CO2 into the tank is it not? Then why not use fast growing plants in a sump on a reversed lighting period? So when they respire releasing CO2 directly into the water, and voila CO2 levels in display increase. Also they will absorb excess CO2 when main display is lights off.

Tell me why it hasn't been done already?
Click to expand...


You're quite possibly a genius
 
well im going to roll with this and see what happens.

all i have to do now is decide on a substrate!
 
Hi
the main purpose for using canister filters, or any filters for that matter, is to ensure biological, mechanical and perhaps chemical filtration (i.e. clensing) of the water.
It is not that to dissolve more CO2 in the tank, in fact before the CO2 injection was even introduced on a large scale in planted aquariums (15-20 years ago), people had used filtration for decades, due to the stated reasons.

it is my opinion that plants in the sump will never produce enough CO2 for feeding the plants in the main display (of course, Walstad method aside, but even with Walstad, a sump brings no extra advantage, quite on the contrary as there is increased aeration and more CO2 escapes the water)
if this was true, then we would not even need the sump, instead we would use the CO2 produced by the fish and plants during the night in a normal aquarium, i.e. without a sump.
obviously this does not work.
 
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Planted sump can work, but just to give more O2 during lights out of the main tank. I still would add CO2 through the return pump. Easiest would be get an inline diffusor and strap it to the inlet of the return pump. I found pumping the gas directly into the inlet of the pump made loud noises..
 
may look into doing this.
was trying to keep costs down but oh well.

as i say im still learning about planted so all help and advice greatfully recieved[DOUBLEPOST=1399895311][/DOUBLEPOST]One more thing
if the lights are off in the day the plants in the sump will be producing co2 therefore producing co2 when its needed for the main tank.
i may give it a go and if it does not work i will add co2 at a later date.
 
I think one more aspect needs to be known: afaik, in marine tanks this sort of setup with macro algae in the sump is used in order to export nutrients, since nobody eats N and P in a marine tank and their buildup is indesirable.
but in a planted tank, the plants not only eat the existing N and P, but we also need to add extra as fertiliser

this means you would have to use more fertilizers in this setup, otherwise the plants in the sump will compete with the plants in the main display for food

so for the hypothetical advantage of CO2 generation you will surely need to add extra nutrients than in the situation where you would feed your plants in the display only

and if you use elodeea densa in the sump, you can be sure it will outcompete almost any plant when it comes to growth, so what you will end up with will be "elodeea densa grow tank" :))
 
sorry if im struggling to understand this but if it was on a reverse lighting cycle it would not be competing but expelling co2 during the day.

it may mean that there would be a lesser reliance on the co2 which may have to be injected
 
Couple of things.....

People with sumps have a hard time keeping CO2 levels up and constant due to water movement dissipating the CO2 as it makes its way to and from the sump. Careful design to eliminate "sloshing", "gurgling" etc and use of large amounts of CO2 (think 5Kg fire extinguisher or 6.3Kg pub gas) helps keep the cost down. Advantage of canister filters is they don't out gas your CO2 whilst filtering.

Your tank is also deep, so you need to think carefully about lighting. Graph below will help.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774

PARvsDistVariousBulbs2.jpg

Moving into medium and high light obviously moves you to more dangerous territory for it all to go wrong and end up turning everything to algae. With my T5 lights, in high light region, I had poor CO2 (leak again) for only 2 days and got green algae appearing almost instantly on glass and plants.....:hungover:
 
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