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A reflection - putting it all into one scape

Smell is “fine”. Not odorless like a crystal clear water column but also not like my pantanal smelled.

Best I can say is that it’s not ready for fish, plants would be fine.

Surface grime clear, water clearing as well. You saw the sponges but there is also a cotton batting in there just for this initial phase to help with debris.
 
I knew it would take longer than anticipated to get the scape up and running (I mentioned I'd post this two days ago - and I still haven't replaced the water for the purigen in the garage with more seachem safe).

And this is part of the reason for my choices.

The tank can consume you - especially if your goals are elegant plant forms and healthy fish in harmony.

So the driver for many of my decisions is how can I minimize the amount of time I have to spend thinking about and doing things for the tank. This is the beauty of ADA -- pay lots of money and get a cookie cutter no thinking system (follow it to a T don't go off script and enjoy the hobby). But I am also thrifty.

1) My soil in the tank is from my original tank ever (that 5 gallon dry start had fluorite and it is in this tank) -- I keep re-using it with the same process of miracle gro/osmocote ... and I always add in either garden soil (which I just didn't this time ... I anticipated having enough soil and in retrospect I should have dumped the garden soil on the bottom just because and then I would have a more dramatic slope and/or soil layer -- but it is ok ... next time. I buy the aquasoil on top because it is a cleaner finish rather than capping it with blasting sand or something else that is black. The functionality of that aquasoil cap is worth the price for it + I'll re use it next time.

2) Dry salts - no brainer ... thanks Tom Barr.

3) Water change - the most effective tool and the largest PITA. Had to automate it with the pump straight to a drain (though I'd like to rig this into the outdoor garden) + autorefill with a valve right beside the tank (will prime before and after or just after). In the previous iterations of the tank I had rigged auto water change but it was ugly ... so I built the compartment to hide everything.

4) The compartment doubled up as a weir since I don't have the real estate to set up a wet/dry (though I rigged a diy one in the back room before) ... AND with young kids it isn't worth having it around (since one is just starting to crawl). The weir allows me to hide everything + doubles as a skimmer and surface agitation x2 ... it's a no brainer. The change in dimensions also allow for easier aquascaping.

5) 10 inches of soil = higher PAR at substrate from light + saves my back since my tank dimensions suck. I recall watching a video where victor at Green Aqua made a joke about needing a chair to trim the tank and I used to be like I don't care how much work I just want pretty plants ... soon I realize the balance is neccesary. Issue here ... water capacity, fish territorial space ... it's limiting to lose that much real estate in the tank but well worth it IMO.

6) Auto Doser = luxury ... I could just put it in pump bottles and one pump a day but at least I can do nothing except look at the tank during the day now.

7) Temp Controller:
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Must have --I bought used eheim 200watt for10$ since the people said the temp dial on them doesn't work ... plug them into the inkbird and they turn on and off and I never boil the water. Can have 2 heaters at seperate ends -- uniform (though I don't need to worry about this now).

8) Lights ... I am working on getting them set up 3 of them are the old AI prime ... 1 is brand new. The 3 will be over one side of the tank (stupid bar down the top) and the other will be on the side with the weir. The reason I will be ok with the seemingly unbalanced PAR is because 1 the old AI have less PAR for one but also one flickers sometimes and the other one has faulty cool white fixtures.

9) Purigen/Carbon ... because I have the auto water change rigged, I am less inclined to use carbon and purigen at start up (in part because the carbon is a one time deal and the purigen requires time and though and energy to recharge ... it will have to be recharged after start up ... no choice or it won't be effective after start up). If we are going for seamless, seamless purigen/carbon, daily waters, maintenance team, hahaha ... but I am one person so automate life and keep it simple.


I suppose I'll finish with outlining the goals for my tank:
1) Minimize cost
2) Minimize time
3) Minimize real estate used
4) Beautiful plants and scape
... 5) do something different

To do 1-3 and achieve 4, I had to build that compartment and black side ... for 5, I had already done the spraybar thing so this flow pattern was a natural progression; ferts wise, I am just having fun since I've pushed a lot of those boundaries in other tank iterations. CO2 ... I am going blind aside from the diffuser bubbles and making sure I nail it (again pushed it and played quite a bit). Temp I am just setting it for fish and forgetting (again played a lot with temp fluctuations). Lights ... same (played a lot with them). Design - I've done the wood ... going to use rocks.

I am rather happy with how it looks though it isn't a crystal clean overflow with a proper wet/dry and it isn't a lilly pipe (which are a pain to clean ... and all that in-line stuff is expensive and mess with flow rates etc).


Ciao
 
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Well ... turns out I'll need to order plants online and get them shipped. Logged into the site and was like a kid in a candy shop (in particular, I got excited when I saw helferi, rotala green, ludwigia arcuata).

Then I realized that I actually need to plan where I place these plants ....

Aside from needing to clean the glass, I am quite happy with the rock placement (I just like it):
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I feel like the eye really leads to that 1/3 on the right, the little rock to the left balances the other 3. I find it interesting. I feel like there are a few "layers" -- full disclosure I don't know what I am talking about lol.

Kind of like these "areas"


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From the top:
1662635697336.png


Whatever goes here is extremely important and I have no clue what to put (any input?)
1662635752506.png


Thoughts on the photo below:

1) Eyes can see the yellow to the left and the front
2) Red = carpet ... I do not want ALL HC ... maybe we go Montecarlo front, with HC in back to give some contrast
3) The blue are rosettes? Helferi? Repens?
4) The black either a stem or a grass? <-- if we do grass, then the feel of the scape will change
5) The maroon stems for sure as I want it to grow the tallest to form that triangle
6) Keep the lone rock without any rosettes - it will balance the scape maybe?
7) Maybe the purple question mark is an amalgam of the two plants ... maybe a combination of rotala orange juice, rotala h'ra, and rotala green? That's a bit tacky though ... unless we meld all the way but then I think its too much space dedicated to that species amalgam

1662636263350.png


Maybe we MC into HC into Helferi into Blyxa into rotala from front to back as a fade? One thing to note is that with all the mental capacity dedicated to thinking about maintenace, co2, ferts, lights, temps, etc is all gone ... I can dedicate whatever is left to pruning and keeping the scape nice .. though I do know it will look like nothing I have planned HAHA.

I'm trying -- Please help me :).

Josh

EDIT: for anyone who does see something ... I also want to contrast, coloration, shape (leaf vs. needle), size
 
A nice red lotus!

Red-tiger-lotus-Nymphaea-zenkeri.jpg
Thank you! I hadn’t even thought of a lotus.

And especially because of the beam on my light - will shine right on it and give that red.
It would really pop and let me use some green plants around it - showcasing a contrast of maybe needles with Pogostemon erectus and then maybe Rotala green. On the left. It would also let some green rosettes take the spotlight in the front.

How would it look beside dragonstone?
 
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You could try tilting your rock upwards slightly @JoshP12

Like this:

1662664499216.jpeg


Extra shadow, depth and interest. Also more height available post planting. Simply pick your viewing angle and position the most interesting face of each rock towards the viewing point. Can then tweak the angles until they sit right with each other.
 
You could try tilting your rock upwards slightly @JoshP12

Like this:

View attachment 194198

Extra shadow, depth and interest. Also more height available post planting. Simply pick your viewing angle and position the most interesting face of each rock towards the viewing point. Can then tweak the angles until they sit right with each other.
Much simpler and prettier.

I’ll give it a whirl!
 
@Geoffrey Rea strikes again.

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I will hopefully hit the store today and you have likely made me spend more $$ … may need more rocks 😂.

Chances are, let’s keep it simple, I’ll get a some HC or MC (I’ve never actually MC just HC) and s repens, helferi, and some Rotala s at the store today whatever they have, plant away, and begin the process. If I don’t get that stuff, I’ll refill and continue letting my filter … do it’s thing. I SHOULD add the purigen once I plant and also get rid of the cotton batting in the filter (for flow/distribution) and the purigen sheerly to help with any burn the plants might experience (for principal of water change, I may simply not add the purigen to be as “nothing needed for startup” as possible) … I did want to add old ratty plants to show the turn around (I did this before but didn’t document it) so we just go with healthy - tried and true - and move on.

Side note: that is the water level for water change always for reference. AND massive benefit to reusing my soil … I already have a beautiful MTS colony (which survived being in containers for up to a week with the ferts added) aerating my soil and beginning the process.

Cheers,
Josh

Also, turns out my canister filter is leaking just a bit — after power off (different side this time. It is in a larger bucket so I’m not overly concerned and new O rings on the way.
 
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Bought all the rocks the shop had. Daughter helped me place! That’s my excuse that it doesn’t look like Amano was here!

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Will order plants … probably come Tuesday.

EDIT: Monte Carlo (didn't have HC in stock), Helferi, Rotala H'Ra, Rotala Green, Rotala Macrandra, Ludiwigia arcuata -- keeping it simple.
 
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Getting pretty epic this Josh feel an addiction to looking in😃
Haven't been this excited for the tank myself - I think ever.

I feel I constantly pushed and experimented and pushed and watched -- now I am just following the method and hoping the plants grow LOL. I recall in a video from Green Aqua -- can't find it now but Jurijs said: Step 1 - learn to grow plants ... then he goes on with more steps about how to aquascape --- lol.

Small update:

Design:

Sorry kiddo ... I know you wanted that big rock straight but Amano scolded me in my sleep. Or maybe it was @Geoffrey Rea .

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The environment:
Water very cloudy, smell is not correct - there will be an issue if water changes don't happen ... likely melt on plants in 2 ways: ammonia burn + adaptation.

Logistical issues:
Also, good thing it is fall ... had a realization that this water change method will put water straight in ... when winter comes I am either going to kill everything, need to reduce water change frequency to days which aren't as cold, or pick the right fish ... will worry about temp shortly.

Lights:
I mentioned one is faulty ... picture always better:
1662893227051.png


It is very hard to see but the cool white channels only work sometimes.

It is why it is far left and not placed over the rotalas and stems.
1662893284111.png

The red one is next generation of the light and is brand new (one of the other two flickers but hasn't lately so I don't know which) -- it is over macrandra.

I will need to be cognizant of beam spread as well and angles (drop the lights down after planting).

Spectrum does matter - I manipulated them in the past to increase and overdrive red and warm white to increase photosynthetic rates - it does work. And the reason I can say with confidence is because there was a relative impact to the day before and subsequent trials on: Drop Checker color (it was greener) AND "stable pH" ... the drop happened but the blip upward was experienced more with more red and and yellow/orange which is in conjunction with McGree curve:
1662893476947.png


The impact has less impact on growth rates than CO2/ferts etc ... but it is real.

I will be using default settings 100% for all channels because it is the most appealing to the eye and with enough PAR the plants should look like soldiers. Well and I guess I don’t have a choice … my one light might explode if I try to overdrive those channels 😂.

Will post later when I give more thought to temp ... have a day or two before I plant anyways.

Josh
 
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Here’s where my head is at on temperature. (turns out it led me down the track of fleshing out the entire system but hey!)

What I could do:

If you set it anywhere from 68f-88f and leave it and forget it and proceed as usual, then everything will be “fine”.

But we want optimization:
Each temp will offer benefits over the others. The primary constraint is fish choice, however: if we choose a ram, the thing has to be hotter. If you choose a minnow, it can be colder. But really, most fish will adapt, within reason.

Fish - check.

Higher temps offer increased metabolic rates and increased energy in the system for life - that means algae and bacteria. The tank will grow the proper bacterial assemblage faster at higher temps ... but to sustain that growth rate, we require oxygen (which will be reduced due to high temp and gas laws).

Lower temps slow down metabolic rates and increase gas concentration. This means bacteria has a higher likelihood of not being oxygen limited and plants have a higher likelihood of not being CO2 limited. Compound slower metabolism with more CO2, this means we as the fish keeper will have an easier time providing the proper nutrients and as such probably have better plant forms with less attention to flow/distribution of CO2 and ferts. And less energy for the algaes.

Higher temp:
1) Faster bacterial assemblage
2) Less ammonia in water column (cleaner environment) -- since more metabolism means growing faster (provided we don't block via Leidbig).
3) If things aren't "correct" inadequencies will be exploited faster ... algae will spawn quicker if we don't get it right
4) It will be harder to get things correct (highest likelihood of messing up is CO2 bottlenecking Leidbig and metabolism increase CO2 demand)
and then more stuff

Lower temp (basically all the opposites but let's illustrate a few):
1) Easier plant forms + meeting co2 demand
2) More time to respond to ammonia spikes
and then more stuff

So, those things stick out to me -- but CO2 needs to be perfect ~10 - 30 minutes into lights on -- it needs to be "getting there" at lights on. The best way we could get this is lower temps. But when do we have the most oxygen? (the largest downfall of high temps) -- when plants are growing their fastest ... 4 hours into photoperiod and on wards ... we want max temp at the point when these plants experience their final soak up of CO2 ... and the “stabilize at a smaller photosynthetic rate”.

... so maybe we mimic nature?

I think I will set my temp (for now) around 23celcius at lights on and overnight and then up to 26celcius for about 4 hours into photoperiod. Recall reading somewhere that the difference between min and max is about 2 - 4 celcius ish depending on season. Thinking best growth will be in the "wet season"? Not sure how reliable this is: Water temperature in Amazon river (near Manaus) today | Brazil but 3 degree swing sounds nice like a nice middle ground to start.

Photoperiod: let's go 10 hours to get viewing before my kiddo goes for nap (on weekends ~ 12:30PM) ... so 11:30 AM with a 30 minute ramp (last time I was in the Caribbean the sun got aggressive almost instantly so let's mimic that) ... 12 PM should be on full blown (by the point CO2 should saturate the water which I am comfortable with as my agitation is bang on so I should get a high enough injection rate to do it).

Ok -- so:

Lights on: 11:30 AM (temp 23)
Ramp up: 11:59 aM (temp starts to ramp up)
Lights at 100: 12:00PM (temp ramping)
Temp stabilize (totally guessing): 3:00 PM (hold steady)
Potential "final suck up of CO2": 4:00PM (pearling should be crazy! Paired with max temp!)
Temp begin to drop back to 23: 6:00 PM (gives us 2 hours of good cleaning of ammonia in column)
Ramp down of lights: 9:00 PM
Lights off: 9:30 PM

This is clearer:
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(whoops AM on that picture for 11:30).

So ... that looks like nature ... I hope. AND I have never done this for startup (only in a mature system).

Josh
 
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Will get some better shots later but I wanted to say this:

Flooded the tank - definitely feel rusty … been 7-10 months since I did anything with the tank aside from observe … afraid I forgot how to grow them! Lol

Time will tell.

Day 1: planted, flooded, watched, turned up co2.

Noticed that after submerge, pearling increased so co2 probably at least decent. Will leave it

Water change. Ferts in back to targets.

Will update tomorrow!
 
I know you advocate high light on tanks, but I'll be interested to see how it goes with four AI light cannons at full power! :eek:

I know you've started with a mature substrate which will help a lot, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager a high potential for a veritable algae riot in due course,
 
3 degree swing sounds nice like a nice middle ground to start.
I wonder. Water has high thermal capacity. If your heater is strong enough, you can probably increase the temperature by 3 degrees in 3 hours. But then, it'll take whole day to get back to 23 degrees.
I'm using no heaters, only my pumps increase temperature 0.5 to 1 degree above room temperature. Otherwise my tanks follow room temperature - with a delay lasting several days!
Just a guess. Try and we shall see.
 
I know you advocate high light on tanks, but I'll be interested to see how it goes with four AI light cannons at full power! :eek:
Better practice what I preach! I'll be as honest and transparent with my observations as I can be.
I know you've started with a mature substrate which will help a lot, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager a high potential for a veritable algae riot in due course,
With water change at fingertips, I think I'll be able to get ahead of them. Though with this much energy in the system, thinking I need to on the ball - any weakness will exploit quick. On the maturity piece … it might be old but it also has half a bottle of miracle gro in it 😂.

I'll be honest, I nearly pulled the trigger on testing pH today and/or installing a drop checker but I resisted. I find myself much more attentive to each plant and the system than I was when I had those tests.

Yesterday (yes those are all the jellies from being tossed around -- I hate removing them and find it tedious so when I get tired of it I get a little lazy ... not great but meh):
1663193727519.png

Today
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and later in the day
1663194143510.png

I'm noticing massive changes in water clarity.

Example:
1663194284973.png


These Monte carlo leaves seems to be budding out of the "gross green micro green one that was in the cup". So I am noticing growth ... that is good (using nutrient stores) -- I am definitely giving them a few minutes to have access to air during water change when it is at the lowest point (but the MC and helferi is still submerged so not getting much of anything).

It would be a no brainer to crank co2 even higher just because but I feel that it is good enough at the moment -- and I want to get close enough to what it should be without being so overboard that I need to spend weeks pulling the co2 down until livestock can go in.

Pearling is the interesting beast:

After flooding:
1663194429305.png


Do not see that at all today.


I am noticing most O2 is coming from substrate ... which means something with roots is happening - I think - that is nice.

First pearl I saw came around 25 minutes into lights on today (30 minute ramp) and it came from substrate ... I only saw small bubbles on arcuata at the back -- pearling is a big indicator of things going well since my only visual is the plant itself, the water clarity, the smell, the root system, and then I have pearling which is reliable since I have massive light so the tank should be pearling.

I will say that I had to check my ego and intercede a little later in the day ... I didn't see the pearling that I "wanted" so I dropped that water, let the plants breathe, filled it fresh (~ 2-3 hours into photoperiod once plants were "in full photosynthesis mode") ferts in back to targets (micros were done at AM with lights on) all of this automated. It is worth noting that when I turned off filters, pearling increased (this is a very good sign) and the pearling with filtration on was happening in the back left corner where there would presumably have the weakest flow ...

So, my next step this eve is to take a credit card and just clean up that glass (have some dirt on it from planting still) -- drain, fill, ferts back to targets, micros in am.

Rinse and repeat.

But @Wookii I think a lot of people are thinking the same with the high light so thanks for bringing it up.

I wonder. Water has high thermal capacity. If your heater is strong enough, you can probably increase the temperature by 3 degrees in 3 hours. But then, it'll take whole day to get back to 23 degrees.
I'm using no heaters, only my pumps increase temperature 0.5 to 1 degree above room temperature. Otherwise my tanks follow room temperature - with a delay lasting several days!
Just a guess. Try and we shall see.
You're bang on @_Maq_ --> yesterday, I looked at my temp and was rataher un impressed with how fast it was climbing ... I used 2x heaters for most of the life of the tank except I chose to go only 1 heater this time and doesn't have enough juice ... I may throw my second heater in to really get that temp up.

In terms of dropping down, we keep the house pretty cool and most mornings it is at 22/23 when I wake up, so I am not as concerned about the descent.


A consolidation of what I'm using to guage what is going on:
1) Water clarity
2) Smell
3) Plant growth/change/adaptation
4) Pearling
5) Substrate changes --> specifically roots.
6) Surface scum

It is worth noting that Auto top off has filled ~ 2gallon passed three days … agitation is real (comparable to when I had wet/dry going).



Edit: of course, I’m doing the water change and forget about the credit card thing, then I quickly go get a paper towel and try to dab it up, then I stick my arm in the overflow compartment to dust off the intake and all the water from the overflow, overflows into the tank cascading all my soil and plants down. You gotta be kidding me lol. This is why I sit and watch lol - safer.
 
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With water change at fingertips,

Yep, I think they are going to be key. What is your regime for that?

On the maturity piece … it might be old but it also has half a bottle of miracle gro in it 😂.

Yeah, I intentionally didn't mention that 😂 - Water changes will be even more crucial because of that leaching I suspect. I know you are running this tank on an 'eyeball' basis, and don't want to test anything, but I'd be interested to now what kind of ammonia levels you are seeing in the water column. I know from adding a small number of fert balls (mine were from opened Tropica root tabs) compared to what you added, even below a couple of inches of soil, gave me significant ammonia leaching issues.

My point on the substrate maturity though, was more that, in my limited experience, I find far fewer issues at start up if I'm using a good chunk of bacterially/microbially mature substrate, than if the substrate is brand new. Even using a mature filter, and lacing brand new substrates with mulm laden water from an existing filter canister seems to be no real substitute for a inch or so of good old stuff.

With that old stuff in there, it will hopefully give your system a big kick start to maturity, and help you deal more quickly with any new tank syndrome symptoms (and with the side effects of the photon cannons 😂)

But @Wookii I think a lot of people are thinking the same with the high light so thanks for bringing it up.

Yeah, not intending to come across as negative on that by the way, I fully hope it all comes together and works out well. It's just that its completely contrary to what I would do at start up (I'd have one Prime running at about 40%!!) so it will be very interesting to watch things develop and see how you address any issues.
 
Yep, I think they are going to be key. What is your regime for that?
The pump is hidden in the black compartment with a black “wall” going up above the substrate: Filter/ato/power heads off, plug in pump, intiate suction, unplug it — walk away. It drains water to the same level each time direct into drain in back room (thinking about how to rig it into garden). Leave for a couple minutes - everything gets exposure to air except from carpet. T’d off water line and have a direct fill into tank (into that black compartment): water level is low, seachem safe in dosed to full tank, water line on, fill to top, filter and power Heads and ato on.

Co2 been on whole time - into filter intake (just escapes while filter off).

Ferts NPK/Mg back to targets (I don’t remineralize Ca). Micro with lights on.

Yeah, I intentionally didn't mention that 😂 - Water changes will be even more crucial because of that leaching I suspect. I know you are running this tank on an 'eyeball' basis, and don't want to test anything, but I'd be interested to now what kind of ammonia levels you are seeing in the water column. I know from adding a small number of fert balls (mine were from opened Tropica root tabs) compared to what you added, even below a couple of inches of soil, gave me significant ammonia leaching issues.
Maybe Ill dust off the old test kit :).
My point on the substrate maturity though, was more that, in my limited experience, I find far fewer issues at start up if I'm using a good chunk of bacterially/microbially mature substrate, than if the substrate is brand new. Even using a mature filter, and lacing brand new substrates with mulm laden water from an existing filter canister seems to be no real substitute for a inch or so of good old stuff.

With that old stuff in there, it will hopefully give your system a big kick start to maturity, and help you deal more quickly with any new tank syndrome symptoms (and with the side effects of the photon cannons 😂)
+ those Malaysian trumpet snails that were all alive - that’s huge too. I did it for thrifty reasons however.
Yeah, not intending to come across as negative on that by the way, I fully hope it all comes together and works out well. It's just that its completely contrary to what I would do at start up (I'd have one Prime running at about 40%!!) so it will be very interesting to watch things develop and see how you address any issues.
Check this out. 2 years ago — that was around 40%, stable pH, all those things. It was just before the Rotala rotundifolia jungle in the picture in post 1.
 
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