Appistogramma breeding project

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Aren't all Apistogramma blackwater fish?

No, they occur away from the central Amazon basin in the Pantanal, Llanos and Andes piedmont. Have a look at <"Amazon Biotope">

Generally the species you see for sale are those from waters with higher base status, generally the softer the water is the more difficult they are to keep. Apistogramma cacatuoides is an example of a species from harder water.

Also have a look at <"TomC's"> and <"ApistoBob's"> web sites, they are really useful resources.

cheers Darrel

 

[Edvet]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=-27.34147054378889,-50.84431393812099&z=4

 

[SolarPear]

Hi all, No, they occur away from the central Amazon basin in the Pantanal, Llanos and Andes piedmont. Have a look at <"Amazon Biotope">

Generally the species you see for sale are those from waters with higher base status, generally the softer the water is the more difficult they are to keep. Apistogramma cacatuoides is an example of a species from harder water.

Also have a look at <"TomC's"> and <"ApistoBob's"> web sites, they are really useful resources.

cheers Darrel

I think there is a disconnect between what we're talking about. I'm not referring to the conditions of an apistos "natural" habitat. Indeed it'd be very difficult to take a species from South America and put them into a tank I have now and hope that they'd breed. Truth be told under those conditions I don't think they even survive.

But the breeds we import from Europe and Asia are easy in comparison. The rarest Apisto I ever kept was the Tucururi. I was on Holiday when they came up for sale so had a family member purchase them for me. I got back a few days later and was super excited to see how they looked in real life. They spawned after a couple of weeks. I fed them NLS and frozen/live food for conditioning. I never got fry from them. The female didn't take to any vase or cave I added and instead laid eggs on the glass. And then ate her fry after they became free swimming.

I've never attempted to change or even slightly adjust the parameters of my tank. I know the PH of my water and the TDS count (because I have a shrimp tank.) In retrospect, I've also kept species of shrimp which, according to any literature available, shouldn't be able to survive in my parameters and have had them "breed" and molt successfully.

My only rule in terms of spawning is don't mess with the water source and the rest will take care of itself.

Lastly there are several youtubers who have gone of South American fishing trips. The first person I ever saw doing this is a guy called Dustin. Most of his SA fish didn't survive long. While these types of vids make for great viewing the fish never seem to survive for too long once shipped and in their tanks.

If you lower the microsiemens the pH will usually follow, i don't mean adding all kinds of acids, but some leaves ( catappa, oak, guava) will lower pH in soft water.

My Ph hovers between 7.5 and 8. As for the leaf type I use indian almond leaves adding two or so to a 125 or 180L. After boiling to remove tannins. But I find that adding large apple snails is more effective in terms of fry food.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The first person I ever saw doing this is a guy called Dustin. Most of his SA fish didn't survive long. While these types of vids make for great viewing the fish never seem to survive for too long once shipped and in their tanks.

Have a look at Tom C's web site.

cheers Darrel

 

[SolarPear]

Hi all, Have a look at Tom C's web site.

cheers Darrel

I've spoken to Tom many times before and have visited his website numerous times. So I'm unsure of what you're referring to by referencing his site? I've also been a member of a forum he moderates since 2010.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I've spoken to Tom many times before and have visited his website numerous times. So I'm unsure of what you're referring to by referencing his site?

I just mean Tom is a wealth of knowledge and his web site shows fish that he collected in Peru, the biotopes he collected them from, and the water parameters at the sites he collected fish from.

He has bred a fabulous range of the fish he collected.

Personally I've been a long term Apistogramma keeper, although a pretty shoddy one, and the limited success I've had has been because I've listened to advice from Bob Wiltshire, Larry Waybright, Tom, Mike Wise, Ted Judy, Ste Chesters, Mark Breeze, Gerald etc. on <"Apistogramma forums">.

It was from Apistogramma forums that I first became a member of UKAPS (via Ed Seeley who was active on both forums ~ten years ago).

cheers Darrel

 

[SolarPear]

Hi all,I just mean Tom is a wealth of knowledge and his web site shows fish that he collected in Peru, the biotopes he collected them from, and the water parameters at the sites he collected fish from.

He has bred a fabulous range of the fish he collected.

Personally I've been a long term Apistogramma keeper, although a pretty shoddy one, and the limited success I've had has been because I've listened to advice from Bob Wiltshire, Larry Waybright, Tom, Mike Wise, Ted Judy, Ste Chesters, Mark Breeze, Gerald etc. on <"Apistogramma forums">.

It was from Apistogramma forums that I first became a member of UKAPS (via Ed Seeley who was active on both forums ~ten years ago).

cheers Darrel

Ahhh I see.

For me it was a video of an apistogramma inka that brought me into the hobby. I thought you were suggesting that the Elizabaethae can't be bred in anything outside of specific parameters. It was on one of those forums where I read the following (not verbatim)

"All commercially available apistogrammas can spawn in your tank"

And I guess that's why I've never given parameters much thought beyond temp and keeping Ammonia and Nitrite in check. I'm sorry to hear you've had limited success.

Side note: In the midst of our recent heat wave and talk of a hose pipe ban, on the news (I don't remember which channel) a reporter mentioned London has terrible water in comparison to even developing parts of Europe. When I moved to the outskirts (different water board) and found my TDS at 300 I damn near jumped for joy. Previously it was 480 - 490 rising to over 500 in warmer months.

I don't have much advice to give on the planted side of things. I've never grown a H. Pinnatifida successfully and for some strange reason I've had every stem of S repens I've ever planted melt soon after. So I guess we take our "successes" wherever we can find them. My only advice would be to switch to NLS food as a staple for apistos. I noticed a big change in colour within a week or two. I had a macmasteri that went from red to looking almost neon(ish) red. The trio had spawned several times before but my wife was struck by how much he had changed in brightness and thought it was a different fish. I also noticed their next spawns were massive.

I hope that helps.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I thought you were suggesting that the Elizabaethae can't be bred in anything outside of specific parameters.

It isn't a species I've kept (I've steered away from the black-water species of Apistogramma), but my understanding was that it is tricky to keep alive, trickier to spawn and even trickier to successfully raise the fry.

apistogramma inka that brought me into the hobby

Apistogramma (baenschi) Inka50 is a cracking fish, I'm hoping to get some more fairly soon.

I'm sorry to hear you've had limited success.

So am I, it has usually started really promisingly, but sooner or later I've done something really stupid and <"it has all ended in tears">. These are the gorgeous <"Dicrossus maculatus">, that ended up bloating for me (from <"Show us ....">).

The only long term successes I've ever had were <"A. cacatuoides, A. trifasciata and A. borellii">, I don't mention the borellii in that thread, but I had the same problems with them, nobody wanted the fry locally.

My only advice would be to switch to NLS food as a staple for apistos. I noticed a big change in colour within a week or two.

They don't tend to get a lot of dry food, they mainly get live food, supplemented with Astax red crumb from TA Aquaculture.

Here is a crap video of my last pair of A. agassizii


I might try NLS food, I think some of the issues I've had have been too many Grindal and Blackworms in the winter when I don't have many Daphnia etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[SolarPear]

Hi all,It isn't a species I've kept (I've steered away from the black-water species of Apistogramma), but my understanding was that it is tricky to keep alive, trickier to spawn and even trickier to successfully raise the fry. Apistogramma (baenschi) Inka50 is a cracking fish, I'm hoping to get some more fairly soon. So am I, it has usually started really promisingly, but sooner or later I've done something really stupid and <"it has all ended in tears">. These are the gorgeous <"Dicrossus maculatus">, that ended up bloating for me (from <"Show us ....">).

The only long term successes I've ever had were <"A. cacatuoides, A. trifasciata and A. borellii">, I don't mention the borellii in that thread, but I had the same problems with them, nobody wanted the fry locally.They don't tend to get a lot of dry food, they mainly get live food, supplemented with Astax red crumb from TA Aquaculture.

Here is a crap video of my last pair of A. agassizii


I might try NLS food, I think some of the issues I've had have been too many Grindal and Blackworms in the winter when I don't have many Daphnia etc.

cheers Darrel

Honestly I think diet might be where the issue is. I only fed mine live/frozen food once a week. Twice if I wanted them to spawn. Other than that it was NLS. When I started out I thought that if I didn't feed them live foods they would starve. Especially the apistos that spat out flake/pellets after adding them to te tank. But I learned that once they get hungry enough they'll follow the dithers and eat the flake/pellet. I had a hongsloi that held out for 4 days until the female started eating and he followed suit. A week later he'd damn near break the surface to be first in line for the NLS.