AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT

Kalum

Member
Joined
8 Jan 2018
Messages
963
Location
Scotland
I've run this basic set up on multiple aqua one tanks and while I don't have input on the design my experience with them is to stay away from fine media such as filter floss or fine grade foam and to stick with coarse foam and bio media, unless you are cleaning this weekly at most it will clog quickly and drops the water level in the filter compartments
 

zozo

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2015
Messages
7,389
Location
Netherlands
I've run this basic set up on multiple aqua one tanks and while I don't have input on the design my experience with them is to stay away from fine media such as filter floss or fine grade foam and to stick with coarse foam and bio media, unless you are cleaning this weekly at most it will clog quickly and drops the water level in the filter compartments
But that is in a design flaw.. :) You can easily go both ways.. I presented the link previously in this topic.

I used a 3x7 cm overflow, but in reality the water level rises 2 cm above it, that makes 7x2cm surface. Behind the filter sock i made a gap of 10x1.5cm that is pluged with a coarse sponge as extra overflow behind the filter sock. Actualy in realty it works simmultaniously.

but 7x2 = 14cm² overflow - and 10x1,5=15cm² gap with coarse sponge behind the sock added.

If the sock clogs there is still enough gap to compensate it with a coarse media.

It's comparable with a game played, take socker, its the ball nor the field's fault, but the player kicking it.. :thumbup:

Professional tank build doesn't necessarily stands for safegaurding.. Especialy when it comes to sump design. Giving feedback is easy, but recieving it as such is a different story. A lot of professionals (People in general) lak the ability of recieving feedback. Its rather recieved as being critical in a negative sense.
 
Last edited:

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
check out the Innovative marine tanks they make stunning All in one tanks like this
Thanks for the suggestion, I've had a good look around these and a few similar options which are all geared very much for the salty side of things also for the price you pay I believe I can have my own made only more towards my specification. I just need to hope it works out that way!
unless you are cleaning this weekly
I'm sure I will clean the more coarse foam weekly and if needs be will go further along the system, trial and error this will be.
It's comparable with a game played, take socker, its the ball nor the field, its the player kicking it.. :thumbup:
haha - I'm unsure if this is a good thing or bad for me?!?
I've taken all my measurements to at least equal a 20mm pipe (area 314) which is what will be running on my return pump so in theory if everything is clear 5mm below the rim then with a 140mm wide filter compartment I have an area of 700. This is why the 'under' baffles are left 5mm below the rim as an addition safety.
I liked your method @zozo it just added more 'complications' for me and would not be something aside from biological I would see benefit from - maybe you disagree?
My target is to add a simple filtration section onto the end of my aquarium for many reasons but I think the design once ironed out will work.
Maybe there's something I'm not seeing and a fault in my design aside from distance between baffles and gaps? :sorry:
 

zozo

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2015
Messages
7,389
Location
Netherlands
maybe you disagree?
I rather do not.. And i'm not the sump design god.. :) Because each system works in it own unique way.. In the aquarium hobby there are a lot of possibilities that can not be predicted. If it works it works and what more do you want?.. If it doesn't and you find an unexpected flaw popping up after a while, than you simply need to redesign this or that in the concept to tackle the flaw. There is always a way without a total redesign with making some concesions maybe. It's all in the game called learning curve.
 

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
I rather do not.. And i'm not the sump design god
I'm unsure if you misunderstood what I meant - I had meant I am unsure quite the benefit your design would offer me aside from the planting and biological, although I know biological is important!
(maybe not the god but a man with experience and valid views and knowledge) ;)
If it works it works and what more do you want?
The only thing I want aside from this is ease of maintenance. Of course the unexpected flaws are always a bonus. :)

@zozo if you were to go down the route I am, by trying to keep things a simple under/over baffles - leaving the whole thing easy to take apart and clean what would you personally change about this design? I know often there is not just one right answer but I know there are wrong answers and value your opinions. :pompus:

My thoughts at the moment are around the following......
I need to finalise the return position and also the weir comb to be used which will allow me to define the 'over' baffles. (unsure what to do here if it's an adjustable height weir comb, thinking assume the lowest position.
The gap underneath baffles I don't think needs to be as big as 35mm for things to work in theory but on account the spacing between the baffles is 40mm I see little to gain by making it smaller and might increase it unless this can have negative effect?
Small spacing between baffles being 40mm is very tight, especially for such a length but I think any smaller will make it even harder to clean than it already will be and I don't think there's the space to make them any bigger.

I'm open to suggestions not just from Marcel but anyone who feels they have something to add.


20190824_143520.jpg
 

zozo

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2015
Messages
7,389
Location
Netherlands
Looking at your design diagram i see no reason why it should not work. The biological part from a filter is not in the media. What ever media you put in it will be colonized with bacteria more or less. Bacteira do not discriminate they will colonize glass marblles if yu put these in the fillter. If it all is sufficient will depend on the bioload from the aqaurium.

The only facts in this we know is the bacteria in it are highly depended on oxygen. When it recieves no athmospheric oxygen it will be depended on the dissolved oxygen from the water column. Than if what it gets from this water column is sufficient than you reached your goal.

In a sump design with a trickle part the bacteria in it recieve this atmospheric oxygen and is more sufficient.

But than again a valid question is what is beter? Is more sufficient always beter? After all sufficient is sufficient, obviously enough and all you need.

Than if a canister is enough to filter it sufficiently.. Than i see no point in discussing arguments why a sump should be beter no matter it's design. It might be theoriticaly, but i can't know..

Than indeed go with a design you feel most comfortable with regarding maintenance. :)
 
Last edited:

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
Bacteira do not discriminate they will colonize glass marblles if yu put these in the fillter
Are you taking inspiration from Clive in this post?! :lol:
The only facts in this we know is the bacteria in it are highly depended on oxygen.
As I'm not very good at remembering the correct terms I'm assuming here you mean the bacteria in the media relies upon Oxygen - if this is the case if I'm to use a twinstar steriliser then positioning this before the media would then be a good idea do people think? I've no idea if the performance of the twinstar will be wasted by doing this.
Than if a canister is enough to filter it sufficiently.. Than i see no point in discussing arguments why a sump should be beter no matter it's design. It might be theoriticaly, but i can't know
The whole idea of this is to simply replace a separate canister filter and have it all in one place so the purpose of this is exactly that - a built in filter added/included on the end of my aquarium.
I've never had intentions to argue so I'm sorry if it has come across that way. :)
 

Geoffrey Rea

Member
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
897
Location
Cambridgeshire
the bacteria in the media relies upon Oxygen - if this is the case if I'm to use a twinstar steriliser then positioning this before the media would then be a good idea do people think? I've no idea if the performance of the twinstar will be wasted by doing this.
Given you’ve got the Twinstar Andrew I would use it for the first couple of months in tank below the outlet then remove it afterwards if you think it’s an eyesore. At a glance this would be the most efficient means of prolonging any o2 bubbles in the water column to get them into solution. Everything in tank and in the filter will benefit during start up.
 

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
if you think it’s an eyesore
The problem is I know it's an eyesore! - maybe an air pump could help things hidden away in the filtration section?

This has led to further though and I'm now wondering if the filter not having traditional sump overflow baffles where water would fall into the next chamber and instead simply running with a constant water level throughout along with not skimming the surface and taking air in would effect the CO2 levels? o_O
 

Costa

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2016
Messages
354
Location
Athens, Greece
I came across a sump setup over on the plantedtank forums of someone who was using just 2 blue filter foam mats to create 3 spaces in his sump and it worked just fine. I will try to find the link for you
 

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
So; things have had some interesting events and along with the aquarium arriving very late only to be made back to front it got made the correct way (after much protest) it then arrived to a sub standard which I did accept as I thought I could work with it, however when I filled it for a trial the silicone gave. :banghead: That's now another story as I think I've found the company to now build it who seem a lot more knowledgeable, have the equipment and from photos the skills - we will see how it turns out next month hopefully!

Before I noticed the silicone and had to drain it rather quick I did have chance to test the RFG (Random Flow Generator) and first signs look promising (although the hole in the correct place would have helped) link here to a video of it running for a few minutes and prior to this few minutes flow had been all around the back of the aquarium, it really did seem to get everywhere but only testing it with stone and sand will tell. If it doesn't work it's a simple case of removing it and adding a standard Loc-Line nozzle.

CO2 is the topic at the moment, I'll base this on photos of the aquarium that went back and is roughly how things should be just explaining the very basics. You will see in the first photo working left to right; water enters the 1st section (Weir comb missing) down through some filter foam, underneath the first baffle and back over the next to go down through some bio balls, under the third baffle then back over to the return pump section where the pump will return the water to the aquarium from the bottom of the return section and add CO2 there.
The second photo will hopefully help show further how this will differentiate from a sump and is instead an all in one/integrated filter (other descriptors welcome). The idea is that the water level stays the same throughout the display and partitioned filtration section. There are no places where the water will come cascading over baffles etc so I question how/why this would effect CO2?
The Blue line is approximate water level; 12mm from rim throughout.

'Injecting' CO2 would be using a similar method to @Geoffrey Rea does here where the CO2 is diffused and sucked straight into a return pump which will break it up more then hopefully the Venturi action of the RFG will help further. @foxfish I will try to squeeze some kind of cone in if I can but it looked a bit too tight. :sorry:


Picture1.jpg
Picture2.jpg
 

zozo

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2015
Messages
7,389
Location
Netherlands
The idea is that the water level stays the same throughout the display and partitioned filtration section.
If the filter section is completely sealed off from the main tank section. and all stay open top. Then the water level in the filter partition will lower as water from the tank evaporates. The tank will be refilled from the filter partition.
And then you will get cascading water over the last baffle. In time if you do not refill the filter section it results in a partially dry running pump.

To overcome this than drill another small hole bellows the filter outlet hole ½ way down the last partition. 2mm might be enough.
 

Andrew Butler

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2016
Messages
1,659
Location
Banbury, Oxfordshire
@zozo I had only outlined things and missed out quite a lot I probably should have said; I do plan to have some kind of cover over the filtration section with a cutout at the back for cables and pipes etc along with an ATO which should keep water level under control. The pump has a run dry sensor on it so hopefully that would cut out if it were to get blocked for any reason, things I'll probably experiment with to see what hapens
Providing the pump isn't run quicker than what the filtration section can easily turnover I'm assuming it will be ok. The new weir teeth cut out should hopefully allow plenty of space but will also try imitating that being partly clogged to see what happens. I'm having the weir teeth made around 60mm high and 5mm wide, there will be 13 or 14 openings so a good area*. should be able to run it lower than the 12mm level if I choose to add a jumpguard as I do like hatchetfish - we will see how the experiments work out. I also don't want to leave them too long and fragile
*If my calculations are right then 14 teeth with a 5mm width at 48mm (60-12) should give an area of 336 and to compare a 16mm diameter pipe area is 201

Any views on the CO2 and if it will be effected?
 
Last edited:

foxfish

Member
Joined
11 Oct 2009
Messages
4,574
Location
Guernsey
So the main tank will always have the same water level as long as the pump is running but any evaporation will lower the last compartment ten fold ?
That is fine if you are home every day to check it otherwise you will need an auto top up?
 

Similar threads

Top