Bubbles forming foam

[Ds_BerSerK]

So I'm setting up a new aquarium. I've filled it up till around 1/3 of its height and left it overnight. This morning I noticed that bubbles coming from my plenum are forming the foam in the pictures I've attached. The foam doesn't feel soapy to the touch and dissolved as soon as I pick it up in my hand. I've already filled it up a few days ago to check if the wood would float and didn't have this foam problem.

The only difference is that I added the sand that you can see in the picture and I've planted the lower section with Marsilea Hirsuta.

Anyone ideas what that foam could be?

 

[erwin123]

Could it be this: Tropica root tabs and surface film

p.s. is that an undergravel filter?

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

Oh, I forgot, yes I added 30 of Tropica's Root tabs.

 

[erwin123]

Oh, I forgot, yes I added 30 of Tropica's Root tabs.

ok, thats a lot! lucky no fish in the tank.

 

[Wookii]

I've never ran an UG filter, but it's going to pull a hell of a lot of ammonia out of the active substrate, and even more so with that many root tabs which could keep shedding ammonia into the water column for weeks.

You're going to want to do lots and lots of big water changes to keep it from melting your plants I suspect.

 

[alnitak]

Hello !

Don't worry about that foam.

Your tank is just starting, and you just added the sand which means that there is a nice mixture of sand dust, organic compounds coming from the wood, substate etc.. Plus air bubbles trapped in the sand that slowly comes up, and the under gravl filter. All this mixture is able to stabilise the air bubbles, and the result is a quite stable foam.
Try to skim it gently, with a spoon or whatever, thus removing this "new tank chemical magma".
This shall disappear quickly 🙂

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

ok, thats a lot! lucky no fish in the tank.

I'm still planting so fish are safe

 

[erwin123]

Hello !

Don't worry about that foam.

Your tank is just starting, and you just added the sand which means that there is a nice mixture of sand dust, organic compounds coming from the wood, substate etc.. Plus air bubbles trapped in the sand that slowly comes up, and the under gravl filter. All this mixture is able to stabilise the air bubbles, and the result is a quite stable foam.
Try to skim it gently, with a spoon or whatever, thus removing this "new tank chemical magma".
This shall disappear quickly 🙂

Depends on your definition of "quickly". Osmocote does a big dump of ammonia in the first 3 weeks (Tropica root tabs are basically a capsule with lots of osmocote-type pellets). Thereafter, it stabilises. So we're looking at 3 weeks.

And if that is an undergravel filter, all that ammonia is going to be pulled into the water column.....

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

I've never ran an UG filter, but it's going to pull a hell of a lot of ammonia out of the active substrate, and even more so with that many root tabs which could keep shedding ammonia into the water column for weeks.

You're going to want to do lots and lots of big water changes to keep it from melting your plants I suspect.

I'm going to try to scoop those root tabs out as a first step.

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

Depends on your definition of "quickly". Osmocote does a big dump of ammonia in the first 3 weeks (Tropica root tabs a basically a capsule with lots of osmocote-type pellets). Thereafter, it stabilises. So we're looking at 3 weeks.

And if that is an undergravel filter, all that ammonia is going to be pulled into the water column.....

Weren't root tabs meant to release their content over a long period of time, seems like 3 weeks isn't a long time?

 

[Wookii]

I'm going to try to scoop those root tabs out as a first step.

That's going to be quite the task. The outer shells of the root tabs will have dissolved now, and you will be left are the Osmocote style balls which may end up going everywhere.

Weren't root tabs meant to release their content over a long period of time, seems like 3 weeks isn't a long time?

They will last a reasonable amount of time, maybe a month or two, but typically the water movement through the substrate is very slow, so most of the nutrients are trapped within the substrate for the plant roots to access. A UG filter however is actively drawing the water through the substrate at a much faster rate, so any ammonia released by the Osmocote balls will be drawn out with it.

Your best way forward might be to abandon the UG filter for now, and switch to a canister filter until the root tabs have fully disappeared.

 

[alnitak]

3 weeks isn't a long time?

It depends what you call a long time 😉. I would say no, normal time for a tank to start the very beginning of initiating setting up 🙂

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

That's going to be quite the task. The outer shells of the root tabs will have dissolved now, and you will be left are the Osmocote style balls which may end up going everywhere.



They will last a reasonable amount of time, maybe a month or two, but typically the water movement through the substrate is very slow, so most of the nutrients are trapped within the substrate for the plant roots to access. A UG filter however is actively drawing the water through the substrate at a much faster rate, so any ammonia released by the Osmocote balls will be drawn out with it.

Your best way forward might be to abandon the UG filter for now, and switch to a canister filter until the root tabs have fully disappeared.

I'm not actually using a UGF, sorry I didn't explain myself. I'm using anoxic filtration, by using a plenum. My substrate is around 5 inches deep at the lowest point, including 1inch high plenum at the very bottom.

I will also be using a canister filter when the aquarium is completed filled with water. This canister filter will eventually use Biocenosis baskets in it, instead of the standard filter media. But that will be stage 2.

 

[erwin123]

Weren't root tabs meant to release their content over a long period of time, seems like 3 weeks isn't a long time?

Tropica root tabs appear to use an Osmocote type pellet which is designed for terrestrial farming. if you keep it constantly submerged in water, the release rate is probably going to be faster than planting it in soil. Its still good for about 3 months as the graphs show.

As discussed in the thread I linked to, what I do is to add a small amount each week in order to smoothen the release curve, as opposed to dumping everything into the tank at once.

 

[Wookii]

I'm using anoxic filtration, by using a plenum. My substrate is around 5 inches deep at the lowest point, including 1inch high plenum at the very bottom.

Can I ask why you are doing that? To try and achieve denitrification? If so, that is unnecessary (counter-productive in fact) in a planted tank, you will need to be actively adding nitrate to feed the plants, as they will strip whatever is in the water column and generated by the in tank organic processes.

I also suspect you'll struggle to achieve denitrification anyway, as the dissolved oxygen levels will be much higher in a planted tank as a result of the photosynthesis, and in addition the plant roots will add oxygen to the substrate.

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

Can I ask why you are doing that? To try and achieve denitrification? If so, that is unnecessary (counter-productive in fact) in a planted tank, you will need to be actively adding nitrate to feed the plants, as they will strip whatever is in the water column and generated by the in tank organic processes.

I also suspect you'll struggle to achieve denitrification anyway, as the dissolved oxygen levels will be much higher in a planted tank as a result of the photosynthesis, and in addition the plant roots will add oxygen to the substrate.

I wanted to do an experiment as per Dr Kevin Novak's anoxic filtration while creating a more "advanced" aquascape than the ones he usually sets up. According to his findings, plants prefer ammonia over nitrates. I'm referring to this site for all the details.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

plants prefer ammonia over nitrates.

<"They probably do">, mainly for kinetic reasons. A few members have been <"experimenting with urea"> (CO(NH2)2), which would convert to ammonia (NH3) via organisms with the urease enzyme.

I wanted to do an experiment as per Dr Kevin Novak's anoxic filtration

<"Dr Novak"> gets a few <"mentions on the forum">. I'm, at best, <"dubious">.

That is one problem I have with him, a lot of the statements <"he makes are definitely wrong">, and if his baskets work, they don't work for the reason given. In his blog he says: "Each biocenosis basket acts like a giant magnet that attracts ions (positive ions) out of solution; I explain that in my blog. So the nitrogen cycle as you know it and have explained, is not relevant with the Anoxic filter. High oxygen loving bacteria are not its primary reliance; that is only with conventional filtration."

Which is just b*llocks.

There is an <"interview with him here"> and some discussion of <"MankySanke"> as well. If you assume that his <"biocensosis buckets work">, they don't work for the reasons that he thinks they do.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

Hi all,

<"They probably do">, mainly for kinetic reasons. A few members have been <"experimenting with urea"> (CO(NH2)2), which would convert to ammonia (NH3) via organisms with the urease enzyme.

<"Dr Novak"> gets a few <"mentions on the forum">. I'm, at best, <"dubious">.

There is an <"interview with him here"> and some discussion of <"MankySanke"> as well. If you assume that his <"biocensosis buckets work">, they don't work for the reasons that he thinks they do.

cheers Darrel

Thanks Darrel for that and anyone else that contributed to this post.

I wanted to experiment with this as I find the science of all this combined with the beauty of the hobby intriguing.

 

[CMooner]

At least turn off the air to the plenum, it is not needed. This will keep the root tabs in place and the plants will grow fine. Then after your experiment, you toss the whole plenum idea.

Cheers

 

[Ds_BerSerK]

At least turn off the air to the plenum, it is not needed. This will keep the root tabs in place and the plants will grow fine. Then after your experiment, you toss the whole plenum idea.

Cheers

Well, actually I'm gonna start off with the plenum and I'll monitor ammonia. I want to establish bacteria there asap. If plants will die then be it, I'm doing this as an experiment after all.