Budget Koi pond

[Myrtle]

Hi,
I have several large mutt koi in my largest pond which were rescues, but it's reached the point that they are too large for it. I have 2 options; rehome or build an even bigger pond. I'm exploring the latter initially, hence this post.
Since building the original ponds, my health has declined, so I'm not convinced I can physically dig a pond big enough for these fish, so I've been looking at raised ponds. I also need to do it on a budget, so the likes of EZ Ponds are out! I'm also finding the amount of plumbing etc for Koi ponds seems to be incredibly complicated, my current one is filtered by a pump and Blagdon box filter, no bottom drains or other fancy stuff and the fish are thriving (hence being too big for the pond now!).
Why is it that Koi ponds apparently need all this extra stuff? Is it because they tend to be overstocked or because they tend not to be planted? Some of the koi ponds I've seen look very barren, just like a bare bottom tank full of water. I can't see that providing much stimulation for the fish?
Anyway, I was thinking to make this a more formal style pond (my other 4 are all natural ones) but does it really have to be bottom drained and barren if it houses koi??

 

[martin-green]

My understanding is that koi poop a lot, so rather than having to scrape/clean the bottom of the pond a bottom drain is installed. (The pool floor runs all directions pointing to said drain) So to achieve this the easiest way is run the bottom drain pipe past the perimeter to a "large tank" that is slightly taller than the pond. (So if the pump stops all the water will not flow out via the filter) Another fact koi pond keepers use is centrifugal force, the large tank is often cylindrical with a conical base, the pond water comes in via a side entry and centrifugal force causes the solids to fall to the bottom of the cone. After the first chamber there are a number of other chambers each with a different filter media (Your choice) then at the end of the filters there is at least one filter pump returning the water to the pond. Each of the filter chambers have a pipe and valve that run to waste, to make for easy cleaning.

Koi ponds do not have plants for a simple reason, the koi eat the plants. I have seen people put plants in baskets, cover them with gravel, only for the koi (Bored or inquisitive, I don't know) to flick the gravel out and eat the plants. Some folk raise the pots out the way of the fish.

Once you have a dedicated koi pond, you will realise it is not right, and that you must add this or change that. It seems to me that who ever you ask, no matter what you do, there is always a better way or new must have gadget.

I am sorry to hear your health has declined, I know the feeling as...........(Lets not go there, but all I will say is, things you used to do / take for granted that you can do, you find you can't which can be very annoying) koi / koi ponds need a lot of looking after, I would suggest that although you don't want to now, your first option would be better in the long run.

Above is as I believe to be the situation (I have seen many koi ponds) and with the cost of some koi, owners always want the best they can afford at the time, so it turns into a never ending money pit, I don't mind koi, but I would never keep them because of what is involved. One thing is for sure, koi live for 40+ years no problem. At the end of the day it is your choice, but above is how I look at it, wait and see what others say.

 

[Myrtle]

Thanks! I don't know whether I just have koi who don't like plants, but the pond they're in now is pretty heavily vegetated, with waterlillies, watercress, marsh marigolds, iris and arum lillies. I'm sure they eat some of the roots, but not enough to cause issues

I'm definitely not wanting to go down the whole traditional koi keeping route, but was hoping to really build a bigger version of the one above, but raised and more formal. The koi have been in this pond for 5 years so I think they're pretty plant safe, as long as I plant the same way I did this one. I guess, if it doesn't work, I can still rehome and put shubunkins in instead 🤷‍♀️

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

I don't know whether I just have koi who don't like plants, but the pond they're in now is pretty heavily vegetated, with waterlillies, watercress, marsh marigolds, iris and arum lillies. I'm sure they eat some of the roots, but not enough to cause issues

Oh boy, love this @Myrtle ❤️

The exception to ‘the rule’ or are folks just not committed enough to the planted aspect…?

I'm definitely not wanting to go down the whole traditional koi keeping route, but was hoping to really build a bigger version of the one above, but raised and more formal.

Wooden sleepers get pricey pretty quickly depending on how big you are thinking of going. You can do concrete blocks and render a finish on them or tile the sides instead. Both will require a liner or fibreglassing to make watertight.

I guess, if it doesn't work, I can still rehome and put shubunkins in instead 🤷‍♀️

Your pond looks lush so would be leaning towards this option quite frankly. Looks ready made for smaller goldfish rather than Koi.

 

[Myrtle]

Thank you @Geoffrey Rea, I'm not sure which it is to be honest!
I've been chatting to a friend who built his pond with posts, joists and cladding and he's willing to help if I go ahead. The biggest issue with the pond I have, aside from being a bit small for the koi, is that it's very attractive to herons, as they can just wander in and no prevention has worked thus far. If I do build a larger one for the koi, I'll probably leave this one fishless, or go for something small that can hide easier. This pond is a bit like a buffet for the heron as there's not really many hiding spots in early spring.

 

[Atragene]

i had a largeish koi pond for many years, half in and half out of the ground. the walls were those heavy nine inch wide hollow conc blocks and the soil from the dig was piled around the sides to give both strength and hide said blocks. filter consisted of series of pipes with regular holes in attached to pump so water was drawn down. whole lot was buried in eight inches of clean gravel power wash down with pump water going to waste rather than re circulating kept whole thing running for thirty years. size was 60x12x4 in good old feet ! So simple and relatively cheap dearest thing was the liner Sheer sides and depth meant no heron trouble.

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

The biggest issue with the pond I have, aside from being a bit small for the koi, is that it's very attractive to herons, as they can just wander in and no prevention has worked thus far.

Interested to know what you’ve tried so we can shortlist methods you haven’t yet.

Clear fishing line/monofilament on canes around the perimeter can prevent them wading in. Interested to know if the rubber snake thing works, need to try that here.

 

[Miniandy]

The only thing I've found to work against herons is a net over the pond, which is ugly as it gets. So I'd be interested in hearing what folk have tried.

I will have to do the same with mine in the next couple of years

 

[martin-green]

Herons are not stupid, I have seen them (Search YT) land and step over fishing line (Suspended around edge) walk up from an unprotected end of a pond, the easiest way to keep your fish is cover it completely in a net or frame with a net, anything with holes herons will get through.
There is also another option, not sure what it is called but it's designed to stop children falling in a pond. It's a plastic "grid system" that sits 0.5mm below the water surface and herons can not get through it (holes are too small) an ad for it used to show a person "floating" on the water surface, but infact they were standing on the grid.

 

[tam]

We net from autumn to start of summer. They've always been worse threat over winter particularly when local waterways freeze. Keeps the autmn leaves out too. Have a wood frame that slots together - just legs and lengths between/to span it with a net tight over.

We've 'bog' plants around the edge, in backets on shelves and this time of year it's about 60-70% covered in lilly pads.

Might be worth looking at labour costs to have someone dig - or have you got potential mini digger access? Not saying it won't come out prohibitively expensive but might be worth pricing,

We have a raised bed (not with fish in) that's concrete block and then faced with scaffold boards which I think looks quite nice and is probably more flexible/cheaper than sleepers. I can dig out a pic if you want.

 

[Myrtle]

I watched the heron negotiate the fishing line mission-impossible style and this pond is hard to net ( I tried) plus I worry about wildlife getting tangled. Partly why I was looking at a formal style as it's easier to net and heron proof. A mini digger isn't out of the question

 

[zozo]

Herons are pretty large birds with quite a wingspan, so they need also quite some room to land and take off... Depending on the surface you need to cover you can try to make it unattractive and unsafe for the heron to land on your property.

In my case a few years back a heron discovered my garden tubs and snatched a few goldfish from it... One very early morning I saw it sitting on the neighbour's roof eyeballing my tubs waiting for the ideal moment to strike. So that way I found out its ideal route to get into my garden, via the neighbour's roof, hopping on a low wall between the overhanging patio and the garden fencing and then hopping in my garden sneaking to the tubs.

So once I knew the route he came in I blocked its flight path by narrowing it, by extending the wooden framework from the overhang with a pergola to the fencing. And hang a string of decorative led lights and some hanging plant pots with trailing plants. For the rest of the garden, I extended the poles from the fencing to 240cm height, took some Victor chain and cable tensioners and stretched this from pole to pole and partially stretched a net over the garden.

A smart Heron still could sneak in, sneaking in ain't the problem. But they are smarter than this, it never came back because it's too big and I blocked its fastest escape route. He can walk in but he can't fly out in panic mode when he needs to there are too many hurdles to get out safely. And they are smart enough not to trap themselves.

Imagine a bird of that size with a 160cm to 240cm wingspan, if it wants to land in your garden from a free flight it needs quite some space in its gliding angle it can't parachute down. Also in your case, it might come from a roof, then on the fence and then in the garden. Even if it could parachute in parachuting out aint possible it needs its entire 2-meter wingspan for that.

Find that sweet spot and block its flight path.

Some people stretch fishing lines 80cm apart as roofing above their garden... But this is only temporary it rots away... Personally, I prefer to do this with the zinc-plated Victor chain, most DIY markets have it on a role. It's a bit more of an investment but something rather permanent and strong and can also come in handy for hanging decorations. to hang bird feeders, and decorative outdoor LED lanterns. You can tie patches net to it here and there, and or make a grid with outdoor string LED lights. Just make its landing route unattractive and unsafe for it to land so he needs to walk in but can't fly out. And that's what they don't do, won't come in at all if they don't know an easy escape route.

Just an idea that worked a charm for me and the Heron, no idea how feasible this is for your garden and how much surface you need to cover.

Viktor chain type 22 / 27 / 35 / 50

Viktor chain type 22 / 27 / 35 / 50

www.hortiheating.shop

 

[Myrtle]

My garden is very open and backs on to a park so short of covering the whole garden, I think I'll have to accept herons as part of life, or net the pond. Though a friend of mine had to stop netting his after having 2 herons get under the netting and get stuck!

 

[zozo]

My garden is very open and backs on to a park so short of covering the whole garden, I think I'll have to accept herons as part of life, or net the pond. Though a friend of mine had to stop netting his after having 2 herons get under the netting and get stuck!

Build a square wooden pergola above the pond and make it high enough... And large enough... In the pergola, you can roof the top with Victor chains every 80cm or so from one end to the other. If the pergola is large and high enough you can go down from the pergola to the fence in the same way with chains...

If the fence is 200cm high make the pergola 240cm or 260cm depending on the available wooden poles. Since a pergola is completely open it doesn't need to be secured with a foundation.

How are these things named in English?

Like this it's pretty easy to divide the garden into several sections you can grid from above...

It's an investment and some work but definitively a solution...

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

How are these things named in English?

Fence post holder/support/ground spike @zozo

 

[zozo]

Fence post holder/support/ground spike @zozo

Thank you... Now that's quite a mouth full... Hence couldn't find it... Didn't know the words to find them, we call them (paalhouders) 'Pole Holders' to see the entire collection.

 

[sparkyweasel]

But they are smarter than this,

Some Herons are very smart; have you seen these?
Smart Heron
Clever Heron.
I haven't found any with the Grey Heron that we get in these parts. Yet.

 

[zozo]

Some Herons are very smart; have you seen these?

Not from the Heron, but from birds like Crows and Magpies, I've seen a lot... And they are very smart as well.

I guess all birds are very smart... It's stupid to think they are not...

 

[Tim Harrison]

Not from the Heron, but from birds like Crows and Magpies, I've seen a lot... And they are very smart as well.

Corvidae are especially intelligent, you can literally observe them working things out. The whole taxonomic family are generally great problem solvers.

 

[zozo]

Corvidae are especially intelligent, you can literally observe them working things out. The whole taxonomic family are generally great problem solvers.

I'm blessed with living rather rural in a tree. park and forest-rich area see quite a lot of wildlife around...

I have a seemingly sedentary family of Magpies around the house and have a cat that's a sloppy eater I always put his leftover cat food on a low plant-overgrown 5-foot tall wall about 7 feet from the garden door/window, made a clear roofed wooden porch between the house and that wall. Can observe it from my daily workplace. And the Magpies come for the leftover cat food on a daily basis, I see them and they can see me through the window. They come most frequently during the winter end nesting period and then also come to introduce the youngsters when they fly out. Funny is if they come looking and there is no food for them the older ones stay on the spot and complain loudly about it when they see me. Calling me out to bring something. And they know me by now and when I leave the house with my bicycle or for a walk a few of them follow me around for about 100 yards with a loud flyby, the same happens when I come back home again I get similar loud flyby greetings. They are still somewhat cautious and keep their distance but they letting me know that they know and I'm slowly befriending more and more with them.

Also, have a bag of peanuts with shells hanging there that is almost daily visited by the same Jay cracking his daily ration of peanuts. But these are extremely skittish and fly away if I even dare to move a finger.

For the rest, if there are no Magpies it's visited by squirrels and or Tits and these Tits can be extremely loud and sometimes have very loud group conversations with each other. I wish I could understand what they are talking about... If I come too close to the door I always hear the very same Tit alarm peep. So that's the only one till now that I could figure out.

My next-door neighbour has a Walnut tree in the garden, and sometimes when I go for a walk I take the quiet dead-end street that has no traffic and regularly see crows dropping walnuts on the cobble street from a great height to crack them open.