Calzone's new 120x60x45 optiwhite tank build

[Calzone]

Update: finally got some new hosetails for the reactor. Had a job getting the old ones out but managed eventually. Also got the eheim jubilee clips to tighten the hoses on, and these are a superior design it has to be said. Also invested (ouch) in the eheim double taps, as this will make life easier in the long run for maintenance, hose cleaning etc. not fitted the reactor yet as it needs a bit of time and we had guests at the weekend. So currently still feeding the co2 into the filter inlet. This isn't great, it barfs out big chunks every so often. The fish seem ok, and the drop checker is getting yellow by end of day. Mind you it's half way up the tank not near the substrate.

I am having a problem with the carpeting plants, especially the HC, and less so the glosso. I think the HC is growing out well, but it's threatening to yellow in parts. I can't tell if this is normal or not. Now I havea lot of flow - 1200lph or so from the eheim, 300lph or so from the other filter (it's struggling with the head), 2800lph from a the koralia and another 900lph from a small koralia. All on the back top pointing towards the front. The plants are waving nicely. I can tell from bubble movement that there is decent flOw by the substrate where the carpeting plants are, but maybe the pattern is still not quite there. Or maybe they're just settling in. Possibly fitting the reactor will help. Interestingly, the plants no longer pearl like they did when I had bubbles from The diffuser and a blue drop checker..... Suggests some kind of co2 issue.

Also, the damn clumps just keep on coming out of the substrate. I think I just didn't take enough rock wool off the roots, and what with fish poking around and high flow, as the roots grow they seem to push the rock wool up out of the substrate.

Other than that going ok. Crypts partially but not completely melted. Stems growing. Fish happy. Added more harlequins at the weekend, pretty much babies. One got bashed to death overnight by aggressive platies, the rest seem to be left alone now.

 

[Antipofish]

You have platies in there ? mg:

 

[Calzone]

Ha ha! I know it's not cool, but they were in the old tank which was originally a kids tank, and I don't have the heart to

 

[Calzone]

.... Take 'em back to the shop. Besides, at 29 babies a month, I get decent credit towards new fish.


Oh, I also got a betta for the old tank. Sky blue body, golden fins and tail. Stunning fish. Very interesting cat like personality. Might have to thin out the plants though as he's not a great swimmer, plus quite hard to see him.

And if that make me even more uncool, so be it!!

 

[Antipofish]

.... Take 'em back to the shop. Besides, at 29 babies a month, I get decent credit towards new fish.


Oh, I also got a betta for the old tank. Sky blue body, golden fins and tail. Stunning fish. Very interesting cat like personality. Might have to thin out the plants though as he's not a great swimmer, plus quite hard to see him.

And if that make me even more uncool, so be it!!

Its not the cool factor that bothers me, its the fact that they will eat your plants, LOL. I believe platies like noshing on plants don't they? Or am I totally wrong ?

 

[foxfish]

When I have had problems with plants floating up from the bottom. I found a lead staple works well.
Just cut with a pair of scissors a little strip of lead & bend it into a horse shoe then staple the plant to the substrate.
You can easily remove the staple after a week or so.

 

[Calzone]

Its not the cool factor that bothers me, its the fact that they will eat your plants, LOL. I believe platies like noshing on plants don't they? Or am I totally wrong ?

My platies have never touched the plants, except the odd nibble on leaves here and there, but then they are well fed.

On stocking, so I have maybe 4-5 platies, 4 zebra danios from the old tank. I will probably just keep these until they die of happy old age (and will keep extracting the babies to avoid getting swamped). In addition I have now 12 harlequins, and probably 100 RCS.

Currently this actually looks like a fair few fish, even in a tank of this size, but to some extent this is because the plants haven't grown in yet. I expect with denser plant mass there will be room for more.

I have eyes on 2-3 apistos, and possibly some gouramis for the top level. Then I am keen on a small school of corys ( I like the dwarf hastatus, but hard to find locally) or a bristlenose plec or clown plec. Perhaps a couple of otos and some amano shrimp and it will be looking good.

So the final question is, with the above, would there be room for say 20 cardinals? On the face of it this is well stocked, maybe even over stocked, but with oversized filtration, dense plant mass, good surface turnover and regular large water changes on the cards anyway the fish should be fine, I think. All of these are good natured fish as far as I know and with heavy planting, a number of caves, shaded areas under the wood/ferns and a sandy area its a decent environment.

But would it look over busy? By the aesthetic standards of the nature aquarium yes it probably would, but I like the high activity levels. Perhaps it would workd better without the platies and danios ultimately.
Thoughts?

 

[Antipofish]

With the filtration you have and the size of the tank, that stocking is no problem at all. I have had three times that in a 3' x 1.5 x 1.5 using a fluval 403 filter and never had a problem. People get way too hung up on this stocking density rule that is bandied about IMO. Its about what your filter can cope with, and what YOU can cope with in terms of maintaining good water quality. There are other factors too like the CO2 vs O2 levels in your tank. And obviously you would not want to add them all in one go, but I know you know better than that Nick. You also need to think about what fish you are putting in... if its a community of fish they need to be reasonably compatible and also not likely to outgrow the tank, unless you are happy to move them on when they get bigger (which judging by your reluctance to move your platies on, LOL, I don't see that happening, and good for you on that, its a refreshing attitude towards fish. My LFS will take larger specimens back and swap them for smaller ones, or give a small credit against other fish so its not an issue for me). I always look at it this way... "I CAN keep them, but SHOULD I keep them" Its the age old "you can keep a polar bear in a zoo, but SHOULD you" dilemma.

Would it look over busy ? You are the only person who can answer that. Its your tank and you know what look you like and what you don't like. Personally I'm in it for the fish as much as the plants and I intend to have a nice compliment of fish. I have sort of made a list of what I want, in the order of preference, and I will add them until the tank is looking right. If i then add the next thing on the list and it was the straw that broke the camels back (in terms of busyness or look of the tank) i will take them out again.

20 cardinals will look great. 30 would look better IMO.

Just consider that the apistos are likely to target shrimp though (as I have been reliably informed by several experienced aquarists). Yours might not, and if you like apistos enough then try them. But Im a bit miffed because I originally was setting this up just as a "little biotope" for apistos, (LMAO when I think what levels of interest in the planted hobby I have been driven to now) and then I was told "apistos will muller the shrimp" and then "dwarf chain loach will muller the shrimp" (which is a P.I.T.A. as I wanted them to keep snails down so will have to get assassin snails instead).

Bet those harlequins look nice though. I saw some copper ones yesterday and they were cracking.

 

[curefan]

Hi Calzone,
Question for ye!

You may or may not remember, but im starting a very similar setup in a 5x2x2 ft tank.

I was wondering about your experience with the OT2 light unit which I just mounted on today.

First of all, i find the brackets that mount to the glass extremely flimsy and wonder if the are up to the weight of the light (mines very heavy being 5 ft). When i tilted the light back for the first time it wouldnt go back down, so i had to take it off but i couldnt see any prob I had to use excessive force to get it back down but it seemed to loosen up after a while of opening and closing it.

Now the question........When I open mine, it just seems to balance in a vertical position (90 degrees) and if you want to open it at a lesser angle the unit would just fall closed. Im also worried if the unit falls closed from 90 degrees causing damage! Nothing really seems to click to hold it in an open position.....Is this the same for you :?:

If you are doing maintenance and the light is at 90 degrees shining in your face and not shining on the job in hand....poor design or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks, Dave.

 

[Calzone]

Curefan,

I do remember your plans, awaiting your journal!!

Re the OT2. THe legs are a bit flimsy but clearly strong enough to hold the unit. What is important is making sure the legs are screwed tightly on to your tank. This means you need two people to put it on (especially at 5 foot), and you need to make sure the legs are vertical - as they move in and out of the light unit on a pole its easy to get this wrong. Once the unit is on the tank and you are happy the legs are vertical and the poles are as tight into the light unit as poss (this will vary depending on your exact tank width - best way is to check both ends of the light unit for how far back from the front of your tank they are - obviously you want your unti parallel to the front of the tank - not so easy at 5 foot), then you tighten the screws holding the light legs to the tank, doing them a bit each in turn and not one fully then the next.
Once your legs are tightened up, you will find the unit is sturdy. The 90 deg upright is actually weighted to the back and won't fall down without a push (this is why the legs have to be tight, else it will wobble and might fall). It also clips nicely back onto the legs every time on its own weight - you will see the legs are supposed to clip into the raised ridge on the light unit. If you are not lined and tightened up this won't happen reliably, which is the problem you are having.

When doing maintenance, because your reflectors are good, the light will shine into your face and not the tank. You can't have it both ways. Best to turn the lights off IMO to avoid excessive sun tanning and blindness. Of course this means you need to shine a lamp into your tank from the side if your room is not bright enough.

The Arcadia Plant Pro bulbs are very pink/purple. Think this is great for plants and definitely highlights your red fish colours, but it does take some getting used to. With 2 bulbs on, because the pink and white ones are on opposite sides of the luminaire, half your tank is pink and half white, and its noticeable. When all 4 bulbs are on you don't really see it, though you could light a concert hall with it. With my tank being so high I get a lot of glare in the room, but the flip side is I can turn my central heating down...... )

 

[Calzone]

20 cardinals will look great. 30 would look better IMO.
.......

Bet those harlequins look nice though. I saw some copper ones yesterday and they were cracking.

I have 6 harlequins and 6 copper harlequins. But the coppers are mostly tiny so far. I got 7 for a fiver with the baby platy credit. When they grow up (assuming they make it) it will look fab. When they school, which they do occasionally its very nice, especially under the reddish lights.

I'm with you on the cardinals - they just look great. they're not especially interesting though, so I understand why people think of them as dither fish. I might get 15 one week, and then another 10-15 a couple of weeks later.

Re RCS predation, I really think with enough cover and moss their ability to reproduce will exceed any apistos ability to eat. They are outrageous. Besides I still have 50 or so in the old tank and the betta is too slow to eat any. So I reckon I'll have a constant factory going.

My plan is to wait a while before getting the more expensive and bottom feeding fish. Partly to make sure the plants grow in (given the investment in time and money there) and am not growing an algae factory, and partly to mature the environment for them first. so will likely look at cardinals next, then maybe apistos, leaving corys/BN till later and only decide on gouramis based on tank busy-ness after.

 

[Antipofish]

20 cardinals will look great. 30 would look better IMO.
.......

Bet those harlequins look nice though. I saw some copper ones yesterday and they were cracking.

I have 6 harlequins and 6 copper harlequins. But the coppers are mostly tiny so far. I got 7 for a fiver with the baby platy credit. When they grow up (assuming they make it) it will look fab. When they school, which they do occasionally its very nice, especially under the reddish lights.

I'm with you on the cardinals - they just look great. they're not especially interesting though, so I understand why people think of them as dither fish. I might get 15 one week, and then another 10-15 a couple of weeks later.

Re RCS predation, I really think with enough cover and moss their ability to reproduce will exceed any apistos ability to eat. They are outrageous. Besides I still have 50 or so in the old tank and the betta is too slow to eat any. So I reckon I'll have a constant factory going.

My plan is to wait a while before getting the more expensive and bottom feeding fish. Partly to make sure the plants grow in (given the investment in time and money there) and am not growing an algae factory, and partly to mature the environment for them first. so will likely look at cardinals next, then maybe apistos, leaving corys/BN till later and only decide on gouramis based on tank busy-ness after.

Sounds like a good plan Im gonna go ahead with my dwarf chain loach when the tank is more mature based on what you said about cover for the shrimp, but think I will set my second tank up (hark at me ! lol) for the apistos. Im plannin an 80 x 40 x 30 shallow, as I loved the look of George's so much when I saw it in the flesh. Its a stunning tank.

 

[Calzone]

sounds good. I would guess that getting shallow to look good is harder, but like all expert things, if it works its stunning.

 

[Antipofish]

sounds good. I would guess that getting shallow to look good is harder, but like all expert things, if it works its stunning.

One thing I believe will be essential with a shallow tank is open top. Else theres little point IMO.

 

[Calzone]

Quick photo update.

Added 20 cardinals today. One didnt make it out the bag, somehow got caught up in the plastic. Looked ok when I let him out and drip acclimatised for 2 hours but lasted about a minute in the main tank. Also found 1 dried harlequin husk and one dried zebra danio behind the tank. Perils of open top tanks.... I do have glass covers but these were left off for a day or so in between maintenance.

CO2 going nicely now with the AM1000 fitted. Drop checker pretty much yellow by half way through the photo period but the fish dont seem bothered. So am tweaking down just a touch but the needle vale is so hyper sensitive. Anyway, if the fish are happy....

Starting to get some plants growth now. Gloos putting out lots of horizontal runners. HC has spread albeit it still looks a bit yellow. Stems and crypts "putting on weight". Java ferns still look ragged after they dried out during planting, but am awaiting new shoots before tidying up.
May even have to do a trim next week!!

Close up of the HC and some RCS. Dont mind the divider, am hoping the HC will grow over it....

Good growth on the hairgrass. Probably needs a trim. Most of this was 2cm long when planted. Crypt and hygro pinn. behind, and pogo erectus and rotala wallichi to the right at the back.

RHS:

LHS:

Full tank shot:

End on shot:

so 19 baby cardinals in a tank of this size, not enough!!! Probably needs about 50. May not go that far though as theyre not fully grown yet.

No algae anywhere I can see, apart from brown diatoms on teh glass. Will get some otos next weekend though in my experience they're not so good at cleaning the glass. Hesitant to get catfish yet while the plants are still bedding in. Ditto amanos, though this is mostly a lack of stock situation in the local shops.

BUmped up photoperiod to 7.5 hours at suggestion of George to address concerns over HC condition and givne I have no algae so far.

 

[curefan]

Hi Cal.....
How come you decided to cover up the sand??

 

[Calzone]

I didn't. the slopes are such that with planting and the flow and the fish and the replanting the blasted floaters, the aquasoil has colonised the sandy areas. I will, at some point, address this. however, if you've ever tried to pick up aquasoil 60cm down in a tank you will know that its really quite difficult without a scoop of some sort, which I don't have right now.

All in good time. For the time being, I'm still having to fiddle with plants so until that eases, there' snot much point addressing this. It does mean that the glosso is basically growing into the sand area mind you. Something to be fixed.

As an aside, I fixed my colourless drop checker problem by adding 2-3 drops of extra pH solution from my API Master test kit. As I understand it, this just makes the colour darker but doesn't change the pH (and this CO2 conc) at which the colour changes.

 

[Antipofish]

I didn't. the slopes are such that with planting and the flow and the fish and the replanting the blasted floaters, the aquasoil has colonised the sandy areas. I will, at some point, address this. however, if you've ever tried to pick up aquasoil 60cm down in a tank you will know that its really quite difficult without a scoop of some sort, which I don't have right now.

I had the same problem and used the tubing from an old gravel vac to suck up the bits that were displaced.

 

[Calzone]

So far so good - think I might even have to start trimming soon!

Some very generous friends bought me 6 very plump otos for my birthday. They looked to be in great shape - sharp fins, active, plump. In 12 hours they appear to have cleaned up the diatoms from the back glass completely. Awesome. Hopefully I'll be able to keep feeding them with courgette, algae tabs etc. so far still have all the cardinals from last week looking well. All harlequins also looking well. Dozens of baby platies already. I've not even had floating HC clumps for a few days. Bonus.

I confess however, that i did have to upgrade my all pond solutions filter. It simply could not achieve any kind of flow at the head height required with any sensible level of media in there. So am now in possession of a jbl e1501 greenline feeding eheim installation set spray bar, with purigen and mixed media. So far so good. Though I did have to leave the media in there with no flow for 18 hours while I sourced a Europe to uk plug adaptor, as I bought it from zooplus.de - it was cheaper in euros that the uk sites was in pounds. I reckon it landed at about £100 overall which looks like good value given the £149 list, the media included, the German build, and the 1500 Lph flow for 20W.

No doubt about it, spray bar flow gives better flow patterns than powerheads......

 

[Antipofish]

Great choice of filter and great price Nick I've been saying for ages that the German sites are way cheaper. What percentage of your back does the spraybar cover ? On my G6 there are twin outlets. It comes with two nozzles and two spraybar fitting that are about 10" long. I have the two spraybar bits joined together on one outlet and a nozzle on the other but the flow out of the nozzle seems wasted because of the restriction to direction. Actually I can block that nozzle so think I may try that.

So are you running just the one filter ? I really need to read back through your thread again. I have lost track a bit recently, but LOVE the amount of work you have put into this. I hope it rewards you well. Certainly seems like you are well on the way to a real stunner.